Cyprus-Forum.com

[MrH]

Why don't you ever talk about peace? Why are the posts always about war and hatred and bitterness? Don't you know that you are all individually responsible for communal relations and as long as you decide to remain enemies - you will!

When will you look forwards instead of backwards?

Hi,
From a Turkish Cypriot person who used to wait in line at the Famagusta Docks for a job in 1958 only to realise that the Greek Cypriot were always favoured and the luck invidual Turkish Cypriot was chosen only on a ratio of 1-10 Greek Cypriot workers.....and who saw the events of 1963, Eren Koy, Sandalar, 1974 and the S300 Crisis, and the "OXI" chants from the Greek Cypriot of the Annan Plan, I think any Communal activities can only now commence from a STATE-TO-STATE basis. Perhaps in the year 2074 may we one day see some kind of unification?

[CyprusNewsReport]

Why don't you ever talk about peace? Why are the posts always about war and hatred and bitterness? Don't you know that you are all individually responsible for communal relations and as long as you decide to remain enemies - you will!

When will you look forwards instead of backwards?

Simple answer to that is, the Turks demand whats not theirs and want to run roughshod over us.

Communal relations start with respecting human and democratic rights, something the Turks know nothing about. When you have 40,000 heavily armed foreign troops pointing guns as you with daily threats from the more powerful country nearby, how can you think of anything else.

Your question(s) should be directed to the Turks not the the GCs.

Turkey should not be pointing their guns, their troops are here illegally and they should go home.

But their threats can only be a threat to peace if we allow it to be. The dictatorship of a military threat will not prevent me from being on a friendly basis with the average person from the Turkish-Cypriot community. This threat will not twist me into enmity with my neighbor.

I direct my question at people from both communities. We've inherited this situation, we're the only people who are going to do anything about it.

CNR, if you wish to do anything about peace in Cyprus and be a pro-peace activist; there are so many NGOs on both sides of the Cyprus would like to have more people in their ranks...

There are thousands of Cypriots who have friendly relations in various degrees...

This is a public forum that the most active members of it, does not exceed a dozen of individuals who have various type of personalities, knowledge, perspective etc.

You can't change them by asking them why don't they do this or that because they are all adults...

And... Actually we talk about peace but what's considered as peace for GCs is not considered as peace for TCs...

As for existense of Turkish troops, they are here just to reinforce the TC troops that are not sufficient in numbers and military technology to protect the Green Line until a lasting solution to Cyprus problem found...

Let's say there are 40.000 TC troops in North, wouldn't you consider it illegal and ask TCs to abolish it? I'm 100% sure that you would...

It's a nonsense to ask withdrawal of Turkish troops before a lasting solution found to Cyprus problem...

... and if what you mean by saying peace is "let's behave like nothing happened in the past, start from scratch, everyone return their pre-64, pre-74 homes and properties, give TCs a minority status, let Cyprus be a GC/Greek ruled island..."; no, this is not peace for TCs and will never be...

... So, CNR; you asked why people don't ever talk about peace but you've also not talked about it yet... why don't you open a thread under the section "solution proposals" and let us discuss your peace plan?

Good for the NGOs, they're doing their best. As I am lucky enough to be a publisher I do give their activities some media exposure, that's the best role I can think of to promote peace, it's what I can contribute.

What can you do about the past? Change it? No, nobody can change the past.

What I mean by saying peace is to accept and tolerate each other. It's that simple. I have no solutions - the lawyers and politicians should be taking care of this, not the journalists. The journalists can best serve their communities by being unbiased as much as possible.

Having said that about the lawyers and politicians, it occurs to me that peace does not come about because of laws, and not even with peace settlements. It comes about with an internal decision of the community to cooperate amongst each other, more along the lines of the social contract rather than some piece of paper which says we're at peace.

So if you want to stay stuck in the past, that's your choice. But let's look at it in this way - conflicts in the second half of the last century are getting further and further away. Rising crime, drug misuse, domestic violence, unemployment - these are the battles of today.

I live in 2010, what year do you live in?

[CyprusNewsReport]

Why don't you ever talk about peace? Why are the posts always about war and hatred and bitterness? Don't you know that you are all individually responsible for communal relations and as long as you decide to remain enemies - you will!

When will you look forwards instead of backwards?

Hi,
From a Turkish Cypriot person who used to wait in line at the Famagusta Docks for a job in 1958 only to realise that the Greek Cypriot were always favoured and the luck invidual Turkish Cypriot was chosen only on a ratio of 1-10 Greek Cypriot workers.....and who saw the events of 1963, Eren Koy, Sandalar, 1974 and the S300 Crisis, and the "OXI" chants from the Greek Cypriot of the Annan Plan, I think any Communal activities can only now commence from a STATE-TO-STATE basis. Perhaps in the year 2074 may we one day see some kind of unification?

Hi Are you imagining a 100-year war? Because of something that happened to you in 1958?

Have you ever considered that the only person who is harmed by holding a grudge is yourself? Because of the internal world you create for yourself...deciding to hate a group of people for something that happened last century...must be lonely in there for you.

When you give up on others, the only thing you are doing is giving up on yourself. Try having some hope; it makes all the difference.

[Bananiot]

True, but CNR, are the GC bigots of the forum encouraging MrH to put that experience behind him? I think not and from this point of view they are continuing to do maximum damage to our country.

[MrH]

Hi Are you imagining a 100-year war? Because of something that happened to you in 1958?

Have you ever considered that the only person who is harmed by holding a grudge is yourself? Because of the internal world you create for yourself...deciding to hate a group of people for something that happened last century...must be lonely in there for you.

When you give up on others, the only thing you are doing is giving up on yourself. Try having some hope; it makes all the difference.

Hi,
I would love to agree with you but the only party that's really holding a Grudge are the Greek Cypriots; They said "OXI" to the Annan Plan, they refuse the Turkish Cypriots the right to trade directly even though they know very well that it could never result in the recognition of the TRNC without th approval of all of the FIVE Perm members of the UN Security Council, and it was R.R.Denktas' good will gesture to open the border check points in 2003 and not the GCs, and it's Dimitris Christofias who is refusing the Bi-Communal Bi-Zonal Two Constituent Federal agreement idea by proposing imperialistic majority-rule gestures instead of a "Partnership" agreement.

It's not us mate. What I went through would clearly happen again if Dimitris' idea of an agreement were accepted as the Majority GC nation hate the Turkish Cypriots. We are not that stupid - the 76% "OXI" to the Annan Plan was clear evidence of the imperialistic GC-Church Rule of the GC-ROC. I have lived in Southern Cyprus for 8 months as part of my work and know the ins-and-outs of the way things work in your establishment - I do know how to speak, read and write Greek as well by the way being an old goat from Famagusta!

Your idea sound nice when we all live in London as Brits, but pointless on the Island of Cyprus. The only way to move forward is for the GC to either accept the realities similar to the outcome of the separated Yugoslavian states or expect clean Partition. The choice is yours.

[CyprusNewsReport]

True, but CNR, are the GC bigots of the forum encouraging MrH to put that experience behind him? I think not and from this point of view they are continuing to do maximum damage to our country.

Good question, B, that's why I talk about the mental paradigm shifting towards acceptance instead of rejection on a cultural basis. Are we different? Yes. Do we have things in common? Yes. Can we live and let live? Yes, provided we as a community decide to do that.

Bigots and extremists on both sides can also realise that hate talk, trash talk, insults and verbal abuse promote anger in the community, not peace. And it's up to us how much we allow them to influence us and our future.

[CyprusNewsReport]

Hi Are you imagining a 100-year war? Because of something that happened to you in 1958?

Have you ever considered that the only person who is harmed by holding a grudge is yourself? Because of the internal world you create for yourself...deciding to hate a group of people for something that happened last century...must be lonely in there for you.

When you give up on others, the only thing you are doing is giving up on yourself. Try having some hope; it makes all the difference.

Hi,
I would love to agree with you but the only party that's really holding a Grudge are the Greek Cypriots; They said "OXI" to the Annan Plan, they refuse the Turkish Cypriots the right to trade directly even though they know very well that it could never result in the recognition of the TRNC without th approval of all of the FIVE Perm members of the UN Security Council, and it was R.R.Denktas' good will gesture to open the border check points in 2003 and not the GCs, and it's Dimitris Christofias who is refusing the Bi-Communal Bi-Zonal Two Constituent Federal agreement idea by proposing imperialistic majority-rule gestures instead of a "Partnership" agreement.

It's not us mate. What I went through would clearly happen again if Dimitris' idea of an agreement were accepted as the Majority GC nation hate the Turkish Cypriots. We are not that stupid - the 76% "OXI" to the Annan Plan was clear evidence of the imperialistic GC-Church Rule of the GC-ROC. I have lived in Southern Cyprus for 8 months as part of my work and know the ins-and-outs of the way things work in your establishment - I do know how to speak, read and write Greek as well by the way being an old goat from Famagusta!

Your idea sound nice when we all live in London as Brits, but pointless on the Island of Cyprus. The only way to move forward is for the GC to either accept the realities similar to the outcome of the separated Yugoslavian states or expect clean Partition. The choice is yours.

Thumbs up on your language skills. Your Greek is probably better than mine, I spent a lot of years abroad.

To your point that the GC hate the TC, I can really say that is not true. When the borders opened, people were hugging and crying when they saw each other again.

Moving forward is going to be difficult - it is difficult. I believe we'll get there! I think there is more than the politicians posturing and the extremists trash talking. I think there are genuine friends and cases of good relations between TC and GCs but these friendships are not talked about because people are afraid of standing apart from the current political correctness in each community.

As long as the media and the politicians focus on the negative, the communities will stay polarised. Your comment outlining such stark choices as partition illustrates this. Do you imagine that partition will mean a sudden and complete separation - perhaps the northern third of Cyprus will set sail across the Mediterranean Sea on its own? There would still need to be diplomatic relations, trade relations, travel between the 'states'.

Even Serbia has started talks with Kosovo in the case of the ex Yugoslavian states. It's human relations that count! Laws and governments can only do so much.

[Nikitas]

I will become more peace loving when at least one TC politician stops bullshitting me with this Bizonal Bicommunal mumbo jumbo and says clearly that what is put on the table is PARTITION coupled with IMPORTATION OF SETTLERS and that the only way they see the GCs as demonstrating peaceful intent is for the Gcs to accept these conditions.

Till then TCs are behaving like spiteful hypocrites. Their latest property proposals and the insistence on settlers remaining prove it.

[MrH]

CyprusNewsReport

Thumbs up on your language skills. Your Greek is probably better than mine, I spent a lot of years abroad.

To your point that the GC hate the TC, I can really say that is not true. When the borders opened, people were hugging and crying when they saw each other again.

Moving forward is going to be difficult - it is difficult. I believe we'll get there! I think there is more than the politicians posturing and the extremists trash talking. I think there are genuine friends and cases of good relations between TC and GCs but these friendships are not talked about because people are afraid of standing apart from the current political correctness in each community.

As long as the media and the politicians focus on the negative, the communities will stay polarised. Your comment outlining such stark choices as partition illustrates this. Do you imagine that partition will mean a sudden and complete separation - perhaps the northern third of Cyprus will set sail across the Mediterranean Sea on its own? There would still need to be diplomatic relations, trade relations, travel between the 'states'.

Even Serbia has started talks with Kosovo in the case of the ex Yugoslavian states. It's human relations that count! Laws and governments can only do so much.

Hi,

Interesting! Look, my learning of the Greek Language was not out of choice but out of necessity. If I hadn't known Greek then, I would have been buried a long time ago - Trust me! However, I do understand where you are coming from but the main essence of the problem does not really lie there. It's not only to do with trust and the Greek and Turkish Cypriot people only, but also to do with Constitutional rights and Guarantees. For instance, the GC-ROC entired the EU without out involvement or acceptance, Dimitris Christofias would never return to the ORIGINAL Cyprus 1959 agreements and 1960 Constitution with all of its glory, and the Greek Cypriot would never accept Turkey being a future Guarantor of the entire island. There are many, many instances and scenarios which are no longer an option or possible, thus only a Two State Solution with self autonomy can only lay the carpet for building future relations and then the possibility of unification in the distant future. Therefore, in my opinion, even a federal republic would be very much premature due to many of the sensitive issues of both the Greek and Turkish Cypriots of Cyprus. The Greek Cypriots should have accepted the "Turkish Federated State of Cyprus" prior to 1983...perhaps by then it could have mended a few fences. As for now, it's clearly to late.

[CyprusNewsReport]

CyprusNewsReport

Thumbs up on your language skills. Your Greek is probably better than mine, I spent a lot of years abroad.

To your point that the GC hate the TC, I can really say that is not true. When the borders opened, people were hugging and crying when they saw each other again.

Moving forward is going to be difficult - it is difficult. I believe we'll get there! I think there is more than the politicians posturing and the extremists trash talking. I think there are genuine friends and cases of good relations between TC and GCs but these friendships are not talked about because people are afraid of standing apart from the current political correctness in each community.

As long as the media and the politicians focus on the negative, the communities will stay polarised. Your comment outlining such stark choices as partition illustrates this. Do you imagine that partition will mean a sudden and complete separation - perhaps the northern third of Cyprus will set sail across the Mediterranean Sea on its own? There would still need to be diplomatic relations, trade relations, travel between the 'states'.

Even Serbia has started talks with Kosovo in the case of the ex Yugoslavian states. It's human relations that count! Laws and governments can only do so much.

Hi,

Interesting! Look, my learning of the Greek Language was not out of choice but out of necessity. If I hadn't known Greek then, I would have been buried a long time ago - Trust me! However, I do understand where you are coming from but the main essence of the problem does not really lie there. It's not only to do with trust and the Greek and Turkish Cypriot people only, but also to do with Constitutional rights and Guarantees. For instance, the GC-ROC entired the EU without out involvement or acceptance, Dimitris Christofias would never return to the ORIGINAL Cyprus 1959 agreements and 1960 Constitution with all of its glory, and the Greek Cypriot would never accept Turkey being a future Guarantor of the entire island. There are many, many instances and scenarios which are no longer an option or possible, thus only a Two State Solution with self autonomy can only lay the carpet for building future relations and then the possibility of unification in the distant future. Therefore, in my opinion, even a federal republic would be very much premature due to many of the sensitive issues of both the Greek and Turkish Cypriots of Cyprus. The Greek Cypriots should have accepted the "Turkish Federated State of Cyprus" prior to 1983...perhaps by then it could have mended a few fences. As for now, it's clearly to late.

There are many sensitivities...have they turned into neuroses, complexes within which we are trapped for the rest of our lives?

Life goes on! We need an organised approach to our contemporary problems - we need to talk and try to resolve things, not deliver ultimatums every five minutes. Running in circles will not take us forward.