Cyprus-Forum.com

[lola-tulip]

Not Byzantine "leftovers", but proud bloodline continuities.
Do you not complain how intricately we are woven with the Greek Orthodox Church? The Cypriot line has never been broken.

[EricSeans]

insan wrote:

"I don't hate or like people according to their ethnic origins..."

Although you can be pretty scornful when the mood takes you.

[insan]

insan wrote:

"I don't hate or like people according to their ethnic origins..."

Although you can be pretty scornful when the mood takes you.

Of course, EricS... Wouldn't you be scornful under the same or similar circumstances?

I exert hard to refrain being scornful but as you said when the mood takes me, it appears as a reflex action and feel myself to retaliate in the same manner...

[insan]

From 1571 till 1914, was there any reason for TCs whenever saying "we" to have meant something other than Ottoman Turks?

Correction... the Ottomans became British subjects and RENOUNCED Turkishness as a result of the 1923 treaty of Lausanne, not before.

TCs have always been "the remnants of Ottoman Turks; the descendants of an invader of an Greek island Cyprus..." in minds of GC leadership, Greek governments and masses of GCs and GCs who believed their leaderships and governments...

It's a FACT that you are Ottoman remnants so get over it!

The date you've given is correct GR but the matter is that TCs were forced to change their subjecthood to British with treaty of Lausanne...They didn't renounce their Turkishness... Noone can change people's nationality on a piece of paper by force... Just like how GCs once were subjects of Ottoman Empire but still GCs...

Oh yes they did!

ARTICLE 2I.

Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the 5th November, 1914, will acquire British nationality subject to the conditions laid down in the local law, and will thereupon lose their Turkish nationality. They will, however, have the right to opt for Turkish nationality within two years from the coming into force of the present Treaty, provided that they leave Cyprus within twelve months after having so opted.

Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the coming into force of the present Treaty who, at that date, have acquired or are in process of acquiring British nationality in consequence of a request made in accordance with the local law, will also thereupon lose their Turkish nationality.

It is understood that the Government of Cyprus will be entitled to refuse British nationality to inhabitants of the island who, being Turkish nationals, had formerly acquired another nationality without the consent of the Turkish Government.

http://www.mfa.gr/NR/rdonlyres/3E053BC1 ... treaty.doc

In my opinion, "nationality" refers to subjecthood... If not so, now they must have learnt that people don't change their nationalities by imposing it with a piece of paper called treaty...

[denizaksulu]

From 1571 till 1914, was there any reason for TCs whenever saying "we" to have meant something other than Ottoman Turks?

Correction... the Ottomans became British subjects and RENOUNCED Turkishness as a result of the 1923 treaty of Lausanne, not before.

TCs have always been "the remnants of Ottoman Turks; the descendants of an invader of an Greek island Cyprus..." in minds of GC leadership, Greek governments and masses of GCs and GCs who believed their leaderships and governments...

It's a FACT that you are Ottoman remnants so get over it!

The date you've given is correct GR but the matter is that TCs were forced to change their subjecthood to British with treaty of Lausanne...They didn't renounce their Turkishness... Noone can change people's nationality on a piece of paper by force... Just like how GCs once were subjects of Ottoman Empire but still GCs...

Oh yes they did!

ARTICLE 2I.

Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the 5th November, 1914, will acquire British nationality subject to the conditions laid down in the local law, and will thereupon lose their Turkish nationality. They will, however, have the right to opt for Turkish nationality within two years from the coming into force of the present Treaty, provided that they leave Cyprus within twelve months after having so opted.

Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the coming into force of the present Treaty who, at that date, have acquired or are in process of acquiring British nationality in consequence of a request made in accordance with the local law, will also thereupon lose their Turkish nationality.

It is understood that the Government of Cyprus will be entitled to refuse British nationality to inhabitants of the island who, being Turkish nationals, had formerly acquired another nationality without the consent of the Turkish Government.

http://www.mfa.gr/NR/rdonlyres/3E053BC1 ... treaty.doc

In my opinion, "nationality" refers to subjecthood... If not so, now they must have learnt that people don't change their nationalities by imposing it with a piece of paper called treaty...

I would thank GR for his statement. That makes us all Cypriot. That was one thing he denied us TC's.

[Get Real!]

In my opinion, "nationality" refers to subjecthood... If not so, now they must have learnt that people don't change their nationalities by imposing it with a piece of paper called treaty...

What they really learned was that the signature of Ottoman remnants wasn’t worth the paper it was written on… and not much has changed since!

It’s one of the many reasons why I have no respect for your community whatsoever and would not want your people on Cyprus under any circumstances.

It’s like you’ve got a foul DNA makeup which oozes with corruption and downright dishonesty… just like the pitiful excuse you’ve come up with here even though you’ve been proven wrong in this argument!

[Get Real!]

In my opinion, "nationality" refers to subjecthood... If not so, now they must have learnt that people don't change their nationalities by imposing it with a piece of paper called treaty...

I would thank GR for his statement. That makes us all Cypriot. That was one thing he denied us TC's.

Have another MRI scan Deniz... just keep having them and eventually they'll find the culprit.

[denizaksulu]

In my opinion, "nationality" refers to subjecthood... If not so, now they must have learnt that people don't change their nationalities by imposing it with a piece of paper called treaty...

I would thank GR for his statement. That makes us all Cypriot. That was one thing he denied us TC's.

Have another MRI scan Deniz... just keep having them and eventually they'll find the culprit.

FYI GR, I went to the hospital today only to find out that their MRI had just broken down whilst scanning a lady, just before I was to be scanned. Re-scheduled for the 1st of October. Thanks for your concern. I will definitely let you know if anything is found.

[shahmaran]

Not Byzantine "leftovers", but proud bloodline continuities.
Do you not complain how intricately we are woven with the Greek Orthodox Church? The Cypriot line has never been broken.

You mean the Church that did not exit until Ottoman arrival?

[lola-tulip]

Not Byzantine "leftovers", but proud bloodline continuities.
Do you not complain how intricately we are woven with the Greek Orthodox Church? The Cypriot line has never been broken.

You mean the Church that did not exit until Ottoman arrival?

That you did not extinguish us entirely, is a blessing.


In the final analysis, all these rights and privileges, including freedom of worship and religious organization, seldom corresponded to reality. It is not "rights" but cruel facts that stare us in the face. The legal privileges of the patriarch and the Church depended, in fact, on the whim and mercy of the Sultan and the Sublime Porte, while Christians were viewed as little more than second class citizens or infidels. Moreover, Turkish corruption and brutality, about which our textbooks wax so eloquently, were not a myth. That it was the "infidel" Christian who experienced this more than anyone else is not in doubt. Nor were pogroms of Christians in these centuries unknown. Devastating, too, for the Church was the fact that it could not bear witness to Christ. Missionary work among Moslems was dangerous and indeed impossible, whereas conversion to Islam was entirely legal and permissible. On the other hand, converts to Islam who returned to Orthodoxy were automatically put to death. Of a piece with this situation was the fact that new churches could not be built and even the ringing of church bells was not allowed. Finally, the education of the clergy and the Christian population fared no better - it either ceased or was of a rudimentary kind.

The Results of Corruption.

It was likewise the Church's fate to be affected by the Turkish system of corruption. The patriarchal throne was frequently sold to the highest bidder, while new patriarchal investiture was accompanied by heavy payment to the government. In order to recoup these enormous losses, patriarchs and bishops taxed the local parishes and their clergy. Nor was the patriarchal throne ever secure. Few patriarchs between the fifteenth and the twentieth century died a natural death while in office. The forced abdications, exiles, hangings, drownings, and poisonings of patriarchs are all too well documented. But if the patriarch's position was precarious so was the hierarchy's. The hanging of patriarch Gregory V from the gate of the patriarchate on Easter Sunday 1821 was accompanied by the execution of two metropolitans and twelve bishops. (The gate, incidentally, still remains closed in St. Gregory's memory.) The above summary - stark and short as it is - is sufficient to convey the persecution, decay, and humiliation that Eastern Christendom suffered under Ottoman rule. If we add to this tragic fate the militant communist atheism under which most Orthodox have lived since 1917, we get some sense of the dislocation and suffering of Eastern Christianity in the last five hundred years. The grave problems that western Christians have had to face as a result of the French Revolution and the secularization of western society in general might be said to pale against these facts. That the captive Eastern Church has retained its identity and survived is nothing short of miraculous. It is to the credit of the Orthodox that they have remained faithful to the saving faith of Christ.