Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

Kikaput first of all do no make any assumptions about people with what you read here, that's just plain misleading.

Please explain to me what you think "assimilation" is ?

It is exactly because you have never really been here, you cannot see the clear distinction between a Cypriot and a Turk on the street. We can, and so can everyone else here.

They never mixed and they never will.

Because the Turks who come here are less educated. The ones who are not, hate this place anyway, because they probably have better lives in Turkey, as opposed to a sealed shut country.

So because we only get the less educated, they are not only non-influential, they are also open to being influenced by the locals.

They all speak like we do, what more is there to say?

Please explain to me what you think "assimilation" is ?

You already know the long version answer to your own question, Shah, so let me give you the short version instead.!

Whenever a TC who is also NOT a Turkish citizen says "we" to mean, we the Turks and we the Turkey, can only mean that "assimilation" by Turkey on that individual has been completed.!

Now, Shah, you tell me why a TC who is a non Turkish citizen using the word "we" as explained above, does not mean "assimilation" has taken place.??

Well Kikapu... Let's examine what you claim...

Until 1878 even 1914, TCs or Ottoman Turks were the citizens of Ottoman Empire; right? After Cyprus was annexed to UK unilaterally the TCs who remained in Cyprus had become citizens of UK, right?

From 1571 till 1914, whenever a TC who was a citizen of Ottman Empire saying "we" meant Ottoman Turks...

You well know that TCs reacted the unilateral annexation of Cyprus to UK and then the leadership of TCs demanded cession of Cyprus back to Ottoman Turks...

From 1571 till 1914, was there any reason for TCs whenever saying "we" to have meant something other than Ottoman Turks?

Even after 1914, was there any reason for TCs whenever saying "we" to have meant "Cypriots"?

TCs have always been "the remnants of Ottoman Turks; the descendants of an invader of an Greek island Cyprus..." in minds of GC leadership, Greek governments and masses of GCs and GCs who believed their leaderships and governments...

So... what's wrong with a TCs who whenever says "we" to mean Turkish Cypriots or Turks depending on the issue being communal or national...?

When did Turks assimilate TCs? In 1571? In 1914? In 1960? In 1974? When? Why should a Turk assimilate other Turks who have the same nationality but slightly a different culture due to some obvious reasons?

As a linobambaki, you may have a different point of view about this issue and I respect; besides everyone should respect... but please you too respect the others that have a different point of view than the one you have on this issue... However, what you are trying to imply is; as if your point of view is the ultimate truth and we either have no freedom of speech to express our opinions about it or we scare of Turkish army or officials... This is pure galimatias...

As a linobambaki, you are free to renounce your Turkish Cypriotness and return to your origin... I and all TCs are also free to express our opinions about our origins; be it TC, Cypriot, Turk of Cyprus or Turkish...

I many times stated that personally believeing I have a very mixed origin including Turkish... I don't hate or like people according to their ethnic origins... Am i free to call myself whatever i wish?

Are TCs free to believe whether they are Turks, TCs, Cypriots, mixed-origin human beings etc.. and freely express their ethnic origins?

So what's your problem?

It is a fact that, overwhelming majority of TCs consider theirselves as a part of Turkish nation just like Azebaijanis, Kazakhs, Turkmens, Uygurs, Kırgız and some other peoples of Turkic federations...

http://www.turk-pa.org/

[EPSILON]

Its over, the good people of Turkey have lost.

Also lost the basketball championship, they will have to make do with 2nd place too!

It has been a very bad day for Turkey

Nothing they don't deserve.

Judging by this mindset, could we also deduce that Greece deserves the economic collapse and you deserve to be partitioned?

Lets not forget 11th place in basketball

Not sure how Cyprus did, the FIBA page stops counting at 25

70 million, 8 million, less than 1 million, a fair comparison by your standards.

Takes 12 men to win in basketball.



What are you saying?

You are right-check statistics of last 10 years-even champions have a bad period -only one period in this case

[miltiades]

I'm of the opinion that those T/Cs who consider Turkey as their motherland should piss off and join their mama, the same I would say to the G/Cs who see Greece as their motherland.
Cyprus belongs , and always did , to the Cypriot people .

[EPSILON]

Kikaput first of all do no make any assumptions about people with what you read here, that's just plain misleading.

Please explain to me what you think "assimilation" is ?

It is exactly because you have never really been here, you cannot see the clear distinction between a Cypriot and a Turk on the street. We can, and so can everyone else here.

They never mixed and they never will.

Because the Turks who come here are less educated. The ones who are not, hate this place anyway, because they probably have better lives in Turkey, as opposed to a sealed shut country.

So because we only get the less educated, they are not only non-influential, they are also open to being influenced by the locals.

They all speak like we do, what more is there to say?

Please explain to me what you think "assimilation" is ?

You already know the long version answer to your own question, Shah, so let me give you the short version instead.!

Whenever a TC who is also NOT a Turkish citizen says "we" to mean, we the Turks and we the Turkey, can only mean that "assimilation" by Turkey on that individual has been completed.!

Now, Shah, you tell me why a TC who is a non Turkish citizen using the word "we" as explained above, does not mean "assimilation" has taken place.??

Well Kikapu... Let's examine what you claim...

Until 1878 even 1914, TCs or Ottoman Turks were the citizens of Ottoman Empire; right? After Cyprus was annexed to UK unilaterally the TCs who remained in Cyprus had become citizens of UK, right?

From 1571 till 1914, whenever a TC who was a citizen of Ottman Empire saying "we" meant Ottoman Turks...

You well know that TCs reacted the unilateral annexation of Cyprus to UK and then the leadership of TCs demanded cession of Cyprus back to Ottoman Turks...

From 1571 till 1914, was there any reason for TCs whenever saying "we" to have meant something other than Ottoman Turks?

Even after 1914, was there any reason for TCs whenever saying "we" to have meant "Cypriots"?

TCs have always been "the remnants of Ottoman Turks; the descendants of an invader of an Greek island Cyprus..." in minds of GC leadership, Greek governments and masses of GCs and GCs who believed their leaderships and governments...

So... what's wrong with a TCs who whenever says "we" to mean Turkish Cypriots or Turks depending on the issue being communal or national...?

When did Turks assimilate TCs? In 1571? In 1914? In 1960? In 1974? When? Why should a Turk assimilate other Turks who have the same nationality but slightly a different culture due to some obvious reasons?

As a linobambaki, you may have a different point of view about this issue and I respect; besides everyone should respect... but please you too respect the others that have a different point of view than the one you have on this issue... However, what you are trying to imply is; as if your point of view is the ultimate truth and we either have no freedom of speech to express our opinions about it or we scare of Turkish army or officials... This is pure galimatias...

As a linobambaki, you are free to renounce your Turkish Cypriotness and return to your origin... I and all TCs are also free to express our opinions about our origins; be it TC, Cypriot, Turk of Cyprus or Turkish...

I many times stated that personally believeing I have a very mixed origin including Turkish... I don't hate or like people according to their ethnic origins... Am i free to call myself whatever i wish?

Are TCs free to believe whether they are Turks, TCs, Cypriots, mixed-origin human beings etc.. and freely express their ethnic origins?

So what's your problem?

It is a fact that, overwhelming majority of TCs consider theirselves as a part of Turkish nation just like Azebaijanis, Kazakhs, Turkmens, Uygurs, Kırgız and some other peoples of Turkic federations...

http://www.turk-pa.org/

T/cs of course allowed to call themselves whatever they like.What they can not, is to consider themselves to be owners of a land which not belongs to them and where they appeared -in ll cases- as shelters.

[insan]

I'm of the opinion that those T/Cs who consider Turkey as their motherland should piss off and join their mama, the same I would say to the G/Cs who see Greece as their motherland.
Cyprus belongs , and always did , to the Cypriot people .

Kazaks, Kırgız, Turkmens, Özbeks etc. don't consider their motherland as Turkey but still they acknowledge their national origins as Turk and have their independent or federal states...

What's your problem with this, Milti?

[shahmaran]

Kikaput first of all do no make any assumptions about people with what you read here, that's just plain misleading.

Please explain to me what you think "assimilation" is ?

It is exactly because you have never really been here, you cannot see the clear distinction between a Cypriot and a Turk on the street. We can, and so can everyone else here.

They never mixed and they never will.

Because the Turks who come here are less educated. The ones who are not, hate this place anyway, because they probably have better lives in Turkey, as opposed to a sealed shut country.

So because we only get the less educated, they are not only non-influential, they are also open to being influenced by the locals.

They all speak like we do, what more is there to say?

Please explain to me what you think "assimilation" is ?

You already know the long version answer to your own question, Shah, so let me give you the short version instead.!

Whenever a TC who is also NOT a Turkish citizen says "we" to mean, we the Turks and we the Turkey, can only mean that "assimilation" by Turkey on that individual has been completed.!

Now, Shah, you tell me why a TC who is a non Turkish citizen using the word "we" as explained above, does not mean "assimilation" has taken place.??

Kikapu you are really stretching the limits of "assumption" here

Assimilation does not work on a personal basis, it needs to work en mass.

Look at cultures which have been deeply affected by the culture of the US, yet none of them would ever refer to themselves as American.

So going by your logic, are they assimilated or not?

[Get Real!]

From 1571 till 1914, was there any reason for TCs whenever saying "we" to have meant something other than Ottoman Turks?

Correction... the Ottomans became British subjects and RENOUNCED Turkishness as a result of the 1923 treaty of Lausanne, not before.

TCs have always been "the remnants of Ottoman Turks; the descendants of an invader of an Greek island Cyprus..." in minds of GC leadership, Greek governments and masses of GCs and GCs who believed their leaderships and governments...

It's a FACT that you are Ottoman remnants so get over it!

[insan]

From 1571 till 1914, was there any reason for TCs whenever saying "we" to have meant something other than Ottoman Turks?

Correction... the Ottomans became British subjects and RENOUNCED Turkishness as a result of the 1923 treaty of Lausanne, not before.

TCs have always been "the remnants of Ottoman Turks; the descendants of an invader of an Greek island Cyprus..." in minds of GC leadership, Greek governments and masses of GCs and GCs who believed their leaderships and governments...

It's a FACT that you are Ottoman remnants so get over it!

The date you've given is correct GR but the matter is that TCs were forced to change their subjecthood to British with treaty of Lausanne...They didn't renounce their Turkishness... Noone can change people's nationality on a piece of paper by force... Just like how GCs once were subjects of Ottoman Empire but still GCs...

[Get Real!]

From 1571 till 1914, was there any reason for TCs whenever saying "we" to have meant something other than Ottoman Turks?

Correction... the Ottomans became British subjects and RENOUNCED Turkishness as a result of the 1923 treaty of Lausanne, not before.

TCs have always been "the remnants of Ottoman Turks; the descendants of an invader of an Greek island Cyprus..." in minds of GC leadership, Greek governments and masses of GCs and GCs who believed their leaderships and governments...

It's a FACT that you are Ottoman remnants so get over it!

The date you've given is correct GR but the matter is that TCs were forced to change their subjecthood to British with treaty of Lausanne...They didn't renounce their Turkishness... Noone can change people's nationality on a piece of paper by force... Just like how GCs once were subjects of Ottoman Empire but still GCs...

Oh yes they did!

ARTICLE 2I.

Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the 5th November, 1914, will acquire British nationality subject to the conditions laid down in the local law, and will thereupon lose their Turkish nationality. They will, however, have the right to opt for Turkish nationality within two years from the coming into force of the present Treaty, provided that they leave Cyprus within twelve months after having so opted.

Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the coming into force of the present Treaty who, at that date, have acquired or are in process of acquiring British nationality in consequence of a request made in accordance with the local law, will also thereupon lose their Turkish nationality.

It is understood that the Government of Cyprus will be entitled to refuse British nationality to inhabitants of the island who, being Turkish nationals, had formerly acquired another nationality without the consent of the Turkish Government.

http://www.mfa.gr/NR/rdonlyres/3E053BC1 ... treaty.doc

[shahmaran]

From 1571 till 1914, was there any reason for TCs whenever saying "we" to have meant something other than Ottoman Turks?

Correction... the Ottomans became British subjects and RENOUNCED Turkishness as a result of the 1923 treaty of Lausanne, not before.

TCs have always been "the remnants of Ottoman Turks; the descendants of an invader of an Greek island Cyprus..." in minds of GC leadership, Greek governments and masses of GCs and GCs who believed their leaderships and governments...

It's a FACT that you are Ottoman remnants so get over it!

We know that, but you should also accept the fact that you are Byzantine left overs