Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

"Byzantine leftovers" an interesting term, presumably trying to show that Byzantium is something other than Greek and it acted like an overlay to Greek culture.

The theory comes tumbling down when you visit the south of Italy where they too are "leftovers" as opposed to presumably "freshly served".

They speak like us, preserving their language for 3000 years, long before any Byzantine influx. So what we have is not something we inherited, but something we preserved and which turned into the Byzantine tradition.

In short Byzantine equals Greek.

And by the way, the term Byzantine in modern Greek parlance is an honorable title, something to be proud of.

[shahmaran]

"Byzantine leftovers" an interesting term, presumably trying to show that Byzantium is something other than Greek and it acted like an overlay to Greek culture.

The theory comes tumbling down when you visit the south of Italy where they too are "leftovers" as opposed to presumably "freshly served".

They speak like us, preserving their language for 3000 years, long before any Byzantine influx. So what we have is not something we inherited, but something we preserved and which turned into the Byzantine tradition.

In short Byzantine equals Greek.

And by the way, the term Byzantine in modern Greek parlance is an honorable title, something to be proud of.

Yeah, only if you cleverly ignore the part with "left over", just as you ignore the "Roman Empire".

So how does it work, are Romans Greek as well now?

[kurupetos]

"Byzantine leftovers" an interesting term, presumably trying to show that Byzantium is something other than Greek and it acted like an overlay to Greek culture.

The theory comes tumbling down when you visit the south of Italy where they too are "leftovers" as opposed to presumably "freshly served".

They speak like us, preserving their language for 3000 years, long before any Byzantine influx. So what we have is not something we inherited, but something we preserved and which turned into the Byzantine tradition.

In short Byzantine equals Greek.

And by the way, the term Byzantine in modern Greek parlance is an honorable title, something to be proud of.

Yeah, only if you cleverly ignore the part with "left over", just as you ignore the "Roman Empire".

So how does it work, are Romans Greek as well now?

Yes they always had been. They immigrated from Troy.

[shahmaran]

"Byzantine leftovers" an interesting term, presumably trying to show that Byzantium is something other than Greek and it acted like an overlay to Greek culture.

The theory comes tumbling down when you visit the south of Italy where they too are "leftovers" as opposed to presumably "freshly served".

They speak like us, preserving their language for 3000 years, long before any Byzantine influx. So what we have is not something we inherited, but something we preserved and which turned into the Byzantine tradition.

In short Byzantine equals Greek.

And by the way, the term Byzantine in modern Greek parlance is an honorable title, something to be proud of.

Yeah, only if you cleverly ignore the part with "left over", just as you ignore the "Roman Empire".

So how does it work, are Romans Greek as well now?

Yes they always had been. They immigrated from Troy.

Thats funny...

[kurupetos]

"Byzantine leftovers" an interesting term, presumably trying to show that Byzantium is something other than Greek and it acted like an overlay to Greek culture.

The theory comes tumbling down when you visit the south of Italy where they too are "leftovers" as opposed to presumably "freshly served".

They speak like us, preserving their language for 3000 years, long before any Byzantine influx. So what we have is not something we inherited, but something we preserved and which turned into the Byzantine tradition.

In short Byzantine equals Greek.

And by the way, the term Byzantine in modern Greek parlance is an honorable title, something to be proud of.

Yeah, only if you cleverly ignore the part with "left over", just as you ignore the "Roman Empire".

So how does it work, are Romans Greek as well now?

Yes they always had been. They immigrated from Troy.

Thats funny...

No, that's just the truth.

In the first century BCE, Virgil wrote the Aeneid, his epic of the founding of Rome. Virgil drew on ancient legends that told how refugees from fallen Troy had migrated to Italy, where they became the ancestors of the Roman people. Virgil drew heavily on Homer to tell his story. The first six books of the Aeneid adapt many elements of the Odyssey to tell of the wanderings of the Trojan refugees. The last six books of the Aeneid adapt many elements of the Iliad to tell of the wars in Italy between the newly arrived Trojan refugees and the already resident Latin people.

http://novaonline.nvcc.edu/Eli/Troy/new ... irgil.html

[Nikitas]

Romans are obviously not Greek. When you read up on the subject you will see that the eastern part of the Roman empire succumbed to the dominant Greek culture of the area centuries before the fall or Rome and the rise of the eastern empire.

We understand the Turkish slant that wants somehow the Greeks to have disappeared into thin air, so that they can legitimise their claim as another wave of conquest in the area, there being no indigenous people left to displace. But if the Byzantines were not Greek then they made a whacking great effort to learn the language and culture of the Greeks, to impress who one must wonder.

But, that is where you get those "leftovers" in southern Italy, untouched by either Turks or Byzantines and damn it, they speak Cypriot Greek more or less. And to me that is proof that our language derives from before the Byzantines (who in any case were Greek).

A little story from Byzantium. The empress was travelling through the market and one of the porters recited a short verse from Homer's Iliad. The empress (foreign born wife of the emperor) asked for a translation from her escorts and was impressed that a mere porter would know such poetry. She demanded that he be found and rewarded. The search proved futile because almost all porters in Constantinople market could recite Homer. This is a historically verified event from the 9th century. If you want it referenced I can look up names and precise dates. For "leftovers" tthese porters retained their "leftover" culture pretty well.

[shahmaran]

Romans are obviously not Greek. When you read up on the subject you will see that the eastern part of the Roman empire succumbed to the dominant Greek culture of the area centuries before the fall or Rome and the rise of the eastern empire.

We understand the Turkish slant that wants somehow the Greeks to have disappeared into thin air, so that they can legitimise their claim as another wave of conquest in the area, there being no indigenous people left to displace. But if the Byzantines were not Greek then they made a whacking great effort to learn the language and culture of the Greeks, to impress who one must wonder.

But, that is where you get those "leftovers" in southern Italy, untouched by either Turks or Byzantines and damn it, they speak Cypriot Greek more or less. And to me that is proof that our language derives from before the Byzantines (who in any case were Greek).

A little story from Byzantium. The empress was travelling through the market and one of the porters recited a short verse from Homer's Iliad. The empress (foreign born wife of the emperor) asked for a translation from her escorts and was impressed that a mere porter would know such poetry. She demanded that he be found and rewarded. The search proved futile because almost all porters in Constantinople market could recite Homer. This is a historically verified event from the 9th century. If you want it referenced I can look up names and precise dates. For "leftovers" tthese porters retained their "leftover" culture pretty well.

Cypriot Turkish is much closer to Ottoman Turkish, than the Turkish people speak in Turkey, today. And I don't mean the Eastern rubbish, I mean, what we call Istanbul Turkish, the real deal.

Does that mean they existed before the Ottomans? Doubt it.

It just means they were left out from the evolution of language, compared to the masses and the changes they went through. Or in your words, left untouched. Probably due to the fact that islands are closed societies, because of their geographical location.

There is no conspiracy about Greeks needing to disappear Nikitas. I just hate it when they try to get more credit than they deserve, the whole "we created everything" mentality.

Greek language was in favour amongst the upper class due to arts and literature, but that's about it. That alone is a pretty good reason to learn.

How does any of that make you "natives" in Cyprus, really beats me to be honest, maybe you like to explain?

[Nikitas]

native in any nation is the culture that has managed to survive and leave its mark longer than any other. That about sums it up for Cyprus. Wherever you look there is plenty of evidence of Greek culture from the mundane to the sublime. I look more towards the mundane that is why I am fascinated by dialect and diet of the veryday person.

As for Greeks having invented everything, that is a nonsense primary school monodimensional attitude that belongs to comic films.

But
"Greek language was in favour amongst the upper class due to arts and literature, but that's about it. That alone is a pretty good reason to learn. "

is a sweeping statement that implies that ALL inhabitants of a certain area were of the educated classes and ALL learned the langauge that was associated with culture and this fashion persisted through 20 centuries. Bearing in mind the feudal nature of society it is unlikely that all learned this language. Also, bearing in mind that the church used the language likely to influence the majority, and it chose Greek, would mean that most ordinary poor bastards spoke Greek throughout the eastern empire and they learned it at home not at the Lyceum. Somehow I do not see the porters of Constantinople market in the 9th century attending academies of learning. Nor does any of this explain the wishful vanishing of the Greeks into thin air as some "authorities" imply to be miraculously replaced by the non nationality of "Byzantines" who were neither Roman nor Greek. That is going from no sense to nonsense.

[shahmaran]

native in any nation is the culture that has managed to survive and leave its mark longer than any other. That about sums it up for Cyprus. Wherever you look there is plenty of evidence of Greek culture from the mundane to the sublime. I look more towards the mundane that is why I am fascinated by dialect and diet of the veryday person.

As for Greeks having invented everything, that is a nonsense primary school monodimensional attitude that belongs to comic films.

But
"Greek language was in favour amongst the upper class due to arts and literature, but that's about it. That alone is a pretty good reason to learn. "

is a sweeping statement that implies that ALL inhabitants of a certain area were of the educated classes and ALL learned the langauge that was associated with culture and this fashion persisted through 20 centuries. Bearing in mind the feudal nature of society it is unlikely that all learned this language. Also, bearing in mind that the church used the language likely to influence the majority, and it chose Greek, would mean that most ordinary poor bastards spoke Greek throughout the eastern empire and they learned it at home not at the Lyceum. Somehow I do not see the porters of Constantinople market in the 9th century attending academies of learning. Nor does any of this explain the wishful vanishing of the Greeks into thin air as some "authorities" imply to be miraculously replaced by the non nationality of "Byzantines" who were neither Roman nor Greek. That is going from no sense to nonsense.

That is a nice way to explain "nativity" but unfortunately it is not about "culture" my friend, it is about nature, you cant just redefine words at free will. You should at least be the original inhabitants of a place, which you are not, thats my whole point. But even if what you say is accepted, that still does not make you any more native than I am. Which is the real point here, as some seem to disagree.

[Get Real!]

You should at least be the original inhabitants of a place, which you are not, thats my whole point.

When referring to a group of people always use the group's identifier because "you" means nothing to readers or could mean whatever they imagine!