Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

I do recall seeing such disgusting behaviour on a Pakistani/Indian forum once which was closed down for the racial hatred it incited.

Wouldn't surprise me to see this one closed down for the same reason one of these fine days.

So when do you plan to teach a peasant Cypriot like me, how Europeans are meant to behave/act?

[chedda]

Those who don’t like the way things are done in Cyprus know where the exit door is...

That's a stupid remark really, i'm sure the people who are unhappy would leave in the blink of an eye if they could find a buyer for their home. Especially with no title deeds.

Don't make a dork of yourself because in Cyprus you don't need deeds to sell!

I think you'll find most buyers insist on titles nowadays it's a guarrantee that you are not encumbered with a developer re mortgaging.

[Milo]

Those who don’t like the way things are done in Cyprus know where the exit door is...

That's a stupid remark really, i'm sure the people who are unhappy would leave in the blink of an eye if they could find a buyer for their home. Especially with no title deeds.

Don't make a dork of yourself because in Cyprus you don't need deeds to sell!

I think you'll find most buyers insist on titles nowadays it's a guarrantee that you are not encumbered with a developer re mortgaging.

If you wish to buy without Deeds, its essential you check yourself at the LR, then double check with a reputable Lawyer that there are no encumberances at all on the property as your purchase will go behind any mortgages loans or memos on the property, putting you in a much worse postion than maybe the original buyer ever was. Title Deeds ONLY is being warned IF you buy here now or pay little for a property without Deeds and hope that it all works out, the new legislation being prepared by the Govt here, does not address any of the buyers problems at all, in fact it once more protects the Developers, the Banks and the Lawyers. Most have already condemned the new proposals as being useless

Why Title Deed legislation cannot work
The Title Deed legislation under discussion by the Cyprus government cannot work because it fails to address several critical factors; it is nothing more than a planning amnesty designed to protect property developers who have broken the law.


By: Dr Alan Waring
Published: September 19th, 2010

THE new legislation will neither correct the Title Deeds problem per se nor all its inter-related problems because it cannot do so, owing to its limited scope and its inherent defects. It is, in effect, nothing more than another planning amnesty designed to protect developers who have failed to obtain proper planning permission.

In particular, the new legislation will not address the following critical factors:

The developer mortgage debt bubble hanging over Cyprus, estimated at €5.9bn in March 2009 and now probably €7bn, which, under the present flat market conditions and one-third drop in property prices, will deter the authorities, banks and developers from closing existing mortgages and issuing long overdue Title Deeds.
Compliance with any requirements on developers will be essentially voluntary with no enforcement mechanism and minimal or no penalties for non-compliance i.e. the legislation will be unenforceable.
The banks will not be barred from continuing their current practices of issuing or extending developer mortgages against properties that have already been sold; property buyers will still be expected to indemnify the bank if the developer goes bust; there is no automatic protection against errant banks that collude and connive with errant developers and their lawyers.
The issue of rogue and negligent lawyers and the ineffectiveness of the Cyprus Bar Association in (a) setting and policing strict property conveyancing standards and (b) disciplining and removing errant members. (See Gavin Jones’s open letter to the Attorney General, for example).
Perversities in the justice system, with the police generally barred by the Attorney General from investigating allegations of property fraud (a recent rare exception being the K & M Famagusta Developers case where Cypriot rather than foreign buyers were the alleged victims, implying that Cypriots are treated more fairly than foreigners).
The tardy and ineffective justice system in which alleged property fraud victims are forced to take long-winded and costly civil cases against alleged perpetrators.
The long standing gross inefficiency of the numerous government departments and municipal functions involved in the processing of all the many stages required before Title Deeds are issued; a system clogged with new applications and a huge pre-existing backlog may prove to be the main practical downfall of the new legislation.
No obvious anti-corruption mechanisms are included.
The legislation will not be retrospective; therefore the current backlog of buyers of 130,000+ properties (some 40,000 estimated to be British) still awaiting their Title Deeds typically 5-15 years so far, will receive no protection; if a developer mortgage exists on the land and the developer goes bust or is unable to service his mortgage debt, they could be subject to bank repossession. The new tiered system of Title Deeds is doomed to failure; for example, as only a fool would buy a property that did not have full, clean and unconditional Title Deeds, how will developers be able to sell their properties including their huge glut of unsold properties? This will put extra pressure on their gearing and liquidity and in turn on the banks. Also, many buyers who bought in good faith some years ago may suddenly find that their property has been devalued owing to the issue of an imperfect Title Deed. Who would want to buy their property with such a curse on it?
Buyer protection? It will still be virtual, not real.

[chedda]

It seems the land registry is prone to making mistakes and sometimes registers the house to 2 buyers. I for one wouldn't risk this mistake particularly with big money involved.The only option is to buy with a title available end of story ! Registering with the LR does not guarantee no developer mortgage.

On a side note what about all the converted hotels that are now apartments surely they have no chance of ever getting titles ?

[chedda]

Those who don’t like the way things are done in Cyprus know where the exit door is...

That's a stupid remark really, i'm sure the people who are unhappy would leave in the blink of an eye if they could find a buyer for their home. Especially with no title deeds.

Don't make a dork of yourself because in Cyprus you don't need deeds to sell!

I think you'll find most buyers insist on titles nowadays it's a guarrantee that you are not encumbered with a developer re mortgaging.

Oh and one more thing GR new buyers cannot get mortgages unless titles are available !

Yes theoretically you can sell a house without titles it's just finding some one with cash who is incredibly stupid these things normally don't go hand in hand.

[CBBB]

Those who don’t like the way things are done in Cyprus know where the exit door is...

That's a stupid remark really, i'm sure the people who are unhappy would leave in the blink of an eye if they could find a buyer for their home. Especially with no title deeds.

Don't make a dork of yourself because in Cyprus you don't need deeds to sell!

I think you'll find most buyers insist on titles nowadays it's a guarrantee that you are not encumbered with a developer re mortgaging.

Oh and one more thing GR new buyers cannot get mortgages unless titles are available !

Yes theoretically you can sell a house without titles it's just finding some one with cash who is incredibly stupid these things normally don't go hand in hand.

That will be the Brits then!

[chedda]

The Brits were very naive but things have changed now from word of mouth & publications. Foreigners are assured that the legal system here is the same as the british one, how wrong that assumption is. It is loosely based on an Ottoman system i believe.
So CBBB you believe the stupid or naive have no rights and should not be protected by the law ? I expect a lot of the victims in Cyprus never considered the inconceivable it was just too far fetched and not possible in a modern european country.
The Brits do make up a large % of those without titles however the majority are Cypriut who are still un-aware of the implications and prefer the indefinite delays on paying duties.

Tourism & Real Estate are Cyprus's main economy & it looks like both are doomed.

[chedda]

I do recall seeing such disgusting behaviour on a Pakistani/Indian forum once which was closed down for the racial hatred it incited.

Wouldn't surprise me to see this one closed down for the same reason one of these fine days.

So when do you plan to teach a peasant Cypriot like me, how Europeans are meant to behave/act?

It's not a matter of peasant or european just basic ethics. Don't sell something which doesn't belong to you ! It's rather hypocritical considering all the property issues you currently are experiencing with the trnc. Your not exactly squeaky clean yourself !

[CBBB]

The Brits were very naive but things have changed now from word of mouth & publications. Foreigners are assured that the legal system here is the same as the british one, how wrong that assumption is. It is loosely based on an Ottoman system i believe.
So CBBB you believe the stupid or naive have no rights and should not be protected by the law ? I expect a lot of the victims in Cyprus never considered the inconceivable it was just too far fetched and not possible in a modern european country.
The Brits do make up a large % of those without titles however the majority are Cypriut who are still un-aware of the implications and prefer the indefinite delays on paying duties.

Tourism & Real Estate are Cyprus's main economy & it looks like both are doomed.

I didn't say that, but you are the one who says they are naive, which was my point exactly. The legal system here does have quite an element of the British system, but that doesn't mean it is exactly the same.

In the UK would people use the solicitor recommended by the seller for a house purchase, or would they be considered naive for doing that?

I am sure that in the majority of cases the people waiting for their title deeds will get them, it just takes a long time. Those that don't will have to fight it out in the courts, either suing the developer (personally, not his company) or the solicitor they used (it has been done and won).

Also, as you said, the majority of people without deeds are Cypriot, they are obviously patient as they are not getting their knickers in a twist about the situation.

[chedda]

The Brits were very naive but things have changed now from word of mouth & publications. Foreigners are assured that the legal system here is the same as the british one, how wrong that assumption is. It is loosely based on an Ottoman system i believe.
So CBBB you believe the stupid or naive have no rights and should not be protected by the law ? I expect a lot of the victims in Cyprus never considered the inconceivable it was just too far fetched and not possible in a modern european country.
The Brits do make up a large % of those without titles however the majority are Cypriut who are still un-aware of the implications and prefer the indefinite delays on paying duties.

Tourism & Real Estate are Cyprus's main economy & it looks like both are doomed.

I didn't say that, but you are the one who says they are naive, which was my point exactly. The legal system here does have quite an element of the British system, but that doesn't mean it is exactly the same.

In the UK would people use the solicitor recommended by the seller for a house purchase, or would they be considered naive for doing that?

I am sure that in the majority of cases the people waiting for their title deeds will get them, it just takes a long time. Those that don't will have to fight it out in the courts, either suing the developer (personally, not his company) or the solicitor they used (it has been done and won).

Also, as you said, the majority of people without deeds are Cypriot, they are obviously patient as they are not getting their knickers in a twist about the situation.

Naivety is akin to innocence. Solicitors are not recommended by sellers in the UK because it blatantly is a conflict of interest. Having your home re-possesssed or incurring a developers debt would get even the coolest cats knickers in a twist. I think we can both agree the situation is far from perfect and some good legislation would nip this in the bud.