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Cyprus a Greek Island Dating Back thousands of years.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby rotate » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:09 am

Pan wrote:Can't I state truth? I have no problem with English, blacks, Jews, Muslims... Animals lovers because there hunter gather instints haven't worn out yet, dogs role are to aid humans.. How come Britain and other Germanic countries have higher crime rates then Italy, Spain and Greece and Cyprus. How come Northern Cyprus has a higher crime rate then the south? Because Turks ancestry also goes back to the Mongolian huns also regarded as barbarians.


One of the reasons that the RoC has a low recorded crime rate is that the police will not record what they do'nt want to record. Just try getting a reference number or a police officers name when you report a crime!
As the Mayor of one of the municipalities said to me and others 'We know there's a problem with the Police, but what can we do'.
Justice for low level crime victims in the RoC is based more upon who you know and what influence you have rather than any form of judicial correctness. Once you wise up to this and either find yourself an 'influential' friend or a bigger dog your OK. In the villages low (life) level criminals are frequently dealt with without redress to the police to the satisfaction of everyone. Offenders rarely re-offend thus avoiding a criminal record, the state saves money, the victims have justice and the police are allowed to persue the more dangerous criminal elements within society. It may be just coincidence but my Italian sister-in-law tells me that things are dealt with in much the same way in rural Italy. Theres no satisfaction in sending a low level criminal to prison, far better to have your property returned or receive more than adequate compensation while the criminal loses perhaps one or two fingers in a farming or building 'accident':wink:
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Postby ChomskyFan » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 am

cannedmoose wrote:I won't even mention the debate about Alexander's 'Greekness' then...

Alexander was most certainly Greek. Calling him Slavic is laughable, it simply doesn't add up historically as there WHERE no Slavs in that area at the time.
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Postby ChomskyFan » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:49 am

cannedmoose wrote:
gabaston wrote:Remember that the Greek form of democracy was hardly democratic as we'd consider it today. Effectively it was a men's club, an ancient version of the Masons as it were. Therefore, although the modern democracies claim line of descent from the demokratia, the difference between the two is in scale (at most 1 in 10 Athenians for example were full citizens). Women were not free to participate, nor were the many slaves in the polis, i.e. the citizen body was a closed political elite. I wonder how many of the people who proclaim themselves descendents of the demokratia are actually descendents of the majority of disenfranchised souls that suffered under this patriarchal tyranny?


Actually estimates vary throughout the Athenian History about how many Athenians were 'Citizens', mostly because of the latter influx of slaves, the figure that are you citing relates to this, but even then, lets look at 19th century Britain - Over 2000 years on and it was a lot MORE elitist than Athenian Democracy.
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Postby ChomskyFan » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:53 am

2fan wrote:
Pan wrote:Someone on here said richer societies have higher crime, how do you explain Turkey and northern Cyprus crime rates?

I took that out of the disadvantage to my argument and you still have a problem.. I feel pettiness here, I'd like to stop this discussion in case anyone is insulted, but thought it might have been interesting and valid to the fall of Greeks that other peoples who were living up trees, happy as pigs in sh*it, when Greeks were arguing the configuration of the ideal 'polis' in their marble-floored agoras!


And while proto-greeks were sucking dirt and rubbing sticks together, there were highly developed civilisations in Mesopotamia and Egypt.

The idea of Mesopotamia being a Civilization is understandable, however it was hardly 'developed', Mesopotamian Civilization had an extremely basic hierarchical structure, A local 'Chief' and his subordinates, and is in no way comparable to the glory of Athens.
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Postby ChomskyFan » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:54 am

Pan wrote:I will state a historical fact that the British or English are children of a barbaric race.. And this can been seen in the British society today.. Atheist, tattoo loving, beer drinking, animal lovers..

Long live Hellas!!! We gave the world democracy and wrote the first bible, moral foundations of the western world especially from what our philosophers taught. ALexander was the greatest general that lived. Rather then ethnically cleanse he wanted to diversify. Unlike the Germanics and Ottomans.


I agree with you about the Atheist one. A lot of Atheists think they are intellectually superior to everyone else, there is a certain amount of intellectual elitism associated with atheism.
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Postby gabaston » Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:50 am

chomskyfan

oi ill sue you for libel
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Postby gabaston » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:46 am

Rather then ethnically cleanse he wanted to diversify.



i'll bite my tongue.
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Postby ChomskyFan » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:58 am

gabaston wrote:
Rather then ethnically cleanse he wanted to diversify.


i'll bite my tongue.


That's true actually, Alexander was fascinated with cultural unity between the East and the Hellenistic World, most notably shown in his symbolic planting of a a tree from today's Greece in modern Iran to highlight this unity. He encouraged his generals and soldiers to marry foreign women. He respected the gods of other cultures (most notably in today's Egypt). He collected exotic life-forms including an elephant for his teacher, philosopher Aristotle, who he respected a lot. His whole pattern of founding new and great Cities was also in this tradition, he wanted to create a legacy bigger than that of borders and he believed that cultural unification was the way to do it.

Now let's look at the Muslim tolerance in regards to certain cultural issues:

"The city of Alexandria had wide long roads, monuments, other buildings of great architectural design, among them the Pharos (lighthouse), one of the seven wonders of the ancient world and became the center of commerce, culture, learning and research. But the greatest marvel of the city was its library. There was the first true research institute of the world. The scholars of the library studied the entire Cosmos, showing the interconnectedness of all things in it. The Alexandrian library was the first place where all human knowledge was first collected seriously and systematically.

There the best minds of antiquity established the foundations for the systematic study of mathematics, physics, biology, geography, medicine, religion, literature, astronomy, history and many more fields. Among them were Eratosthenes, Hipparchus, Euclid, who once said to his king who was struggling over a mathematical problem "there is no royal road to geometry", Dionysius of Thrace known for his work in the speech by defining its parts, Hirophilus, a physiologist who established that the brain and not the heart is the seat of intelligence, Heron, the inventor of the steam engine and author of the first book on robots called Automata, Archimedes, the greatest mechanical genius until Leonardo da Vinci, Ptolemy who among other useful theories he also compiled much of what is today the pseudoscience of astrology, an example of how intellectual capacity is no guarantee against being dead wrong.

The library was constructed and supported by the Ptolemys, the Greek kings who inherited the Egyptian portion of the empire of Alexander the Great. It was created in the 3rd century BC and until its destruction almost 9 centuries later it was the heart and brain of the ancient world. The library contained ten large research halls, each devoted to a separate subject, fountains and colonnades, botanical gardens, a zoo, dissecting rooms, an observatory and a dining hall. Notice how the element of manual labor (experiment, observation) is present. But the heart of the library was its collection of books. The kings bought books from other cultures and places. Docking ships at the Alexandrian port were searched for books by the police. They were borrowed, copied and returned. It is said that half a million books were kept there."


- Alexander of Macedon356-323 B.C: A Historical Biography

Guess whom we have to thank for destroying the library?

"When a Christian called John informed the local Arab general that there existed in Alexandria a great Library preserving all the knowledge in the world he was perturbed. Eventually he sent word to Mecca where Caliph Omar ordered that all the books in the library should be destroyed because, as he said "they will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous." Therefore, the books and scrolls were taken out of the library and distributed as fuel to the many bathhouses of the city. So enormous was the volume of literature that it took six months for it all to be burnt to ashes heating the saunas of the conquerors."

Caliph Omar, so called light of Islamic Civilization. What he did was simply a crime against The pursuit Knowledge itself, this follows in later Muslim Civilizations, if something is 'Unislamic', there is no reasoning or compromise, it simply must be smashed to the ground in true barbarian fashion. How can anyone despise learning and Intellect so much as to commit such a vile crime against Civilization itself?
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Postby gabaston » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:14 am

chomsky fan

its pretty evident from your posts what you think of turks and islamic followers.

i can think of no better advert than the likes of you as to why turks and greeks should not live together.

you present the perfect argument in favour of partition.
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Postby ChomskyFan » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am

gabaston wrote:chomsky fan

its pretty evident from your posts what you think of turks and islamic followers.

i can think of no better advert than the likes of you as to why turks and greeks should not live together.

you present the perfect argument in favour of partition.


There are some very nice Muslim people I know, and some very nice Turkish people. What I am attacking is an ideology, not a group of individuals. Firstly, you should think of it in these terms - I think that people who run large Corporations are part of an institution that is slowly killing off the Earth and causing untold suffering everywhere, but that doesn't mean I hate these people, I'm sure some of them are the nicest people in the World, but what they are a part of, conscious of it or not, is absolutely horrible.
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