Cyprus-Forum.com

[Malapapa]

We're talking about Cyprus for Gods sake, so its either TC or GC

Don't be so racist. There are other minorities in Cyprus, and those who choose to be neither.

so why're you asking what Greeks got to do with it? At every opportunity you happily condemn Turkey so I just pointed out I would never deny my Turkish ancestry.

I will never know how I became Turkish, I may well have been a Christian converted to Islam, I just don't know and it never bothered or traumatised me.

Your reason for despising anything Turkish should not extend to hating/despising TC's too, they are as innocent as you are in all this.

Read what I say. I didn't say I despise TCs. I said many Cypriots do and I explained why.

I cant ask the Turkish army to leave, but I tell you what, if there was a magic wand that you could wave and remove all the Turk/TC hating fanatics out of the island I would be the first to campaign for their removal. But thats just fantasy I guess. So the saga continues and will for God knows how long more.

You could start by removing that ghastly flag in the mountain. That would be a start. And then the army. That would also help. But that's just fantasy I guess.

[Schnauzer]

Hey AlanwithoneL !!, would you kindly oblige and ram that emblem of persecution you display as your avatar, right up your 'Jacksie'?.

It represents FAR too much suffering to millions of innocent people across the globe.

Known as 'The Butcher's Apron' in Eire, it conjures up memories of similar atrocities committed here in Cyprus.

"Wherever there is hatred, misery and despair, wherever there is hardship, the 'Butcher's Apron' has been there".

Sorry but do I know you? Please show respect to my adopted country's sacred flag. Many a people have died and killed for their flag.

You may be sure that more people have been killed on account of it than have died for it.

[Bananiot]

Rubbish, the UK and Colonies bore the brunt of two world wars. Costas Sophocleous fought in the last one in Italy, as a member of the Cypriot Regiment, which included both GC's and TC's, brothers in arms.

[Schnauzer]

Rubbish, the UK and Colonies bore the brunt of two world wars. Costas Sophocleous fought in the last one in Italy, as a member of the Cypriot Regiment, which included both GC's and TC's, brothers in arms.

You obviously did not read what I wrote.

[BirKibrisli]

Alan,do not waste your time and energy on these people...They are the GC fanatics who are responsible for the tragedy in Cyprus...

We forgot to introduce "BirKibrisli" to all the newcomers...

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:50 am

I know the official history of the EOKA and the TMT,bigOZ...
I will let others (preferably GCs talk about the rights and wrongs of EOKA)
but let me tell you a few things about TMT...The movement which produced TMT started much earlier,after the 2nd world war...It was a political movement called Volkan,and it s aims were to safeguard TC interests in case of a British withdrawal.My father was one of the founders of Volkan...when it was decided that an underground fighting force was necessary to combat any possible aggression from GCs TMT was founded...My father was a regional commmader in the Paphos area (he was also a teacher) and I remember our house in Yalya turned into an arms depot,with us kids as the guardians and protectors of the loot...Many a night I lay in bed snuggling up to handguns,stenguns,and granades,while British soldiers serched our house...Being British they never thought to look under the doona of a sleeping child or a sick (!) woman...and they never found the arms...while TMT was under the control of Dr Kuchuk and A>M>Berberoglu (my father's side) it functioned pretty much as was intended...But when Turkey decided that they needed "real action men" to run TMT Rauf Denktash and Burhan Nalbantoglu took over...Turkey threatened to kill Kuchuk and his supporters if they resisted,so they didn't...soon TMT was acting like a terrorist organisation in guise as a selfdefence organisation,putting fear into their own people,and killing and bombing strategic targets to achieve their ultimate aim,Partition...This is when my father,who was an honorable man,fell out with Denktash and Co and he was on their hitlist for a while...In fact Father was on the hitlist of EOKA as well,as they rightly suspected that he was the area commander in Paphos...But when the hitman finally arrived he was from the TMT,but by divine intervention,he turned out to be one of my father's former students...So instead of killing him he warned him of the danger,and I remember a time when we were on the move all the time to avoid a second hitman...
So dear, bigOz,I owe my exile to Australia to the TMT more than the EOKA...

This does not mean that TMT did nothing good for the TCs...or that all members were murderous thugs...But the leaders were,and they were kept in check somehow by the Turkish colonel in charge of TMT during the early 60s (Kemal Coskun code named Bayraktar,who was withdrawn to Turkey after the 67 events)...sorry to disappoint you,bigOz,but after more than 50 years of keeping silent about these things,I have earned the right to talk...It is upto you to believe me or not...But ask yourself,what motivation would I have to make all this up???All this information is in the public arena these days anyway...Read Arif Hasan Tahsin Hoca's column in Afrika and you will learn the truth about the TMT...warts and all...I want to stress the point that most underground organisations like TMT eventually end up serving the interests of those who control them,and not the general community interests...TMT was conrolled by Denktash locally and Turkey overseas,so it ended up serving their interests...In the process many good,honorable people who wanted to serve the interest of the TC people or the interests of all Cypriots were killed or sent into exile...I know you mean well,bigOz,and sorry once again if I woke you up from the dream imposed by Denktash and Co's propaganda machine...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus11396-10.html

I have never denied the role of the TC fanatics and Turkey in our tragedy,GR...And I have always believed we need to have empathy,compassion,understanding and respect in order to overcome our bloody history and move forward as one people,one nation,in a unitary state based on full democracy and human rights etc...Back in 2007 I was under the illusion that if I admitted the role of the TCs and Turkey,this would encourage others to do the same...But I realised I was only reinforcing the false GC belief that their side was whiter than white... I also realised something more disturbing...GC fanaticism is alive and well...And these people are still bitter about the events from 1571,their hearts and minds are poisoned with hatred and desire for revenge,and they will not rest till they make the hapless TCs of today pay for the real and imaginary sins of their ancestors...There are many good human beings amongst the GCs,but unfortunately,as history is the proof,it is the fanatics who rule the day and dictate what happenes in civil and ethnic conflicts like our own...I could not in possibly continue to beat my own side with a big stick,when my conscience told me they were the the misunderstood and ignored ones,the ones who needed and deserved my empathy and compassion more,under the circumstances...
You can dig up all my old posts all you like,they will only tell the forumers half the truth...The other half of the truth has to be rammed down your throats,as you are unable and unwilling to confess your own sins...And without that a just and lasting solution cannot be found...And without that all Cypriots will be big losers...The bells are tolling for YOU ,my friend...

[Get Real!]

I have never denied the role of the TC fanatics and Turkey in our tragedy,GR...And I have always believed we need to have empathy,compassion,understanding and respect in order to overcome our bloody history and move forward as one people,one nation,in a unitary state based on full democracy and human rights etc...Back in 2007 I was under the illusion that if I admitted the role of the TCs and Turkey,this would encourage others to do the same...But I realised I was only reinforcing the false GC belief that their side was whiter than white... I also realised something more disturbing...GC fanaticism is alive and well...And these people are still bitter about the events from 1571,their hearts and minds are poisoned with hatred and desire for revenge,and they will not rest till they make the hapless TCs of today pay for the real and imaginary sins of their ancestors...There are many good human beings amongst the GCs,but unfortunately,as history is the proof,it is the fanatics who rule the day and dictate what happenes in civil and ethnic conflicts like our own...I could not in possibly continue to beat my own side with a big stick,when my conscience told me they were the the misunderstood and ignored ones,the ones who needed and deserved my empathy and compassion more,under the circumstances...
You can dig up all my old posts all you like,they will only tell the forumers half the truth...The other half of the truth has to be rammed down your throats,as you are unable and unwilling to confess your own sins...And without that a just and lasting solution cannot be found...And without that all Cypriots will be big losers...The bells are tolling for YOU ,my friend...

Why are you getting all worked up?

I just found it pretty audacious for you to accuse us of…

“They are the GC fanatics who are responsible for the tragedy in Cyprus...”

…when you had self confessed to your family’s involvement while you were sleeping with the weapons cache!

[zan]

I have never denied the role of the TC fanatics and Turkey in our tragedy,GR...And I have always believed we need to have empathy,compassion,understanding and respect in order to overcome our bloody history and move forward as one people,one nation,in a unitary state based on full democracy and human rights etc...Back in 2007 I was under the illusion that if I admitted the role of the TCs and Turkey,this would encourage others to do the same...But I realised I was only reinforcing the false GC belief that their side was whiter than white... I also realised something more disturbing...GC fanaticism is alive and well...And these people are still bitter about the events from 1571,their hearts and minds are poisoned with hatred and desire for revenge,and they will not rest till they make the hapless TCs of today pay for the real and imaginary sins of their ancestors...There are many good human beings amongst the GCs,but unfortunately,as history is the proof,it is the fanatics who rule the day and dictate what happenes in civil and ethnic conflicts like our own...I could not in possibly continue to beat my own side with a big stick,when my conscience told me they were the the misunderstood and ignored ones,the ones who needed and deserved my empathy and compassion more,under the circumstances...
You can dig up all my old posts all you like,they will only tell the forumers half the truth...The other half of the truth has to be rammed down your throats,as you are unable and unwilling to confess your own sins...And without that a just and lasting solution cannot be found...And without that all Cypriots will be big losers...The bells are tolling for YOU ,my friend...

Why are you getting all worked up?

I just found it pretty audacious for you to accuse us of…

“They are the GC fanatics who are responsible for the tragedy in Cyprus...”

…when you had self confessed to your family’s involvement while you were sleeping with the weapons cache!

You have no idea what you read do you GC fanatics like you......A specific accusation......I understood you Bir......These guys are so keen to defend the indefensible that they do not even take the time to understand what they are reading..

[Get Real!]

I have never denied the role of the TC fanatics and Turkey in our tragedy,GR...And I have always believed we need to have empathy,compassion,understanding and respect in order to overcome our bloody history and move forward as one people,one nation,in a unitary state based on full democracy and human rights etc...Back in 2007 I was under the illusion that if I admitted the role of the TCs and Turkey,this would encourage others to do the same...But I realised I was only reinforcing the false GC belief that their side was whiter than white... I also realised something more disturbing...GC fanaticism is alive and well...And these people are still bitter about the events from 1571,their hearts and minds are poisoned with hatred and desire for revenge,and they will not rest till they make the hapless TCs of today pay for the real and imaginary sins of their ancestors...There are many good human beings amongst the GCs,but unfortunately,as history is the proof,it is the fanatics who rule the day and dictate what happenes in civil and ethnic conflicts like our own...I could not in possibly continue to beat my own side with a big stick,when my conscience told me they were the the misunderstood and ignored ones,the ones who needed and deserved my empathy and compassion more,under the circumstances...
You can dig up all my old posts all you like,they will only tell the forumers half the truth...The other half of the truth has to be rammed down your throats,as you are unable and unwilling to confess your own sins...And without that a just and lasting solution cannot be found...And without that all Cypriots will be big losers...The bells are tolling for YOU ,my friend...

Why are you getting all worked up?

I just found it pretty audacious for you to accuse us of…

“They are the GC fanatics who are responsible for the tragedy in Cyprus...”

…when you had self confessed to your family’s involvement while you were sleeping with the weapons cache!

You have no idea what you read do you GC fanatics like you......A specific accusation......I understood you Bir......These guys are so keen to defend the indefensible that they do not even take the time to understand what they are reading..

Let me get this straight…

The son of a founder and “Paphos area commander” of the TMT, calls me a GC fanatic and responsible for the tragedy in Cyprus?


I think you’re all trying to drive me insane!

[Piratis]

Your world is my world,dear Bananiot....A world of empathy,compassion and understanding...Those who cannot bring themselves to show one iota of empathy or sympathy for this individual and his suffering have the same mentality as those who have committed the unthinkable attrocities in the first place...They will use anything to justify the hatred and the bitterness in their minds and hearts...

As VP so rightly points out,these creatures,reminds us every day why we are in the mess we are in,and why we can never live in a united country...Thank you for flushing them out ,once again...Keep up the good work,dear friend...Some of us appreciate what you are doing...

And you are showing your empathy by supporting the human rights violations of 100s of thousands of innocent people, by supporting racist discriminations against the majority of Cypriots, and by supporting segregation and ethnic cleansing???

If people like you did not exist then Cyprus would have no problem today. Cypriots would be free to peacefully and democratically take decisions for their own island and there would be no conflicts and no bloodshed.

Cyprus can be united when those who want to partition it are defeated. You started a conflict and a war since 1958 in order to achieve partition, and even today you are looking for excuses to continue your crimes against Cyprus.

OMG, I cant believe what I'm reading. And then you have the audacity to talk about racist discrimination? This attitude can only put the final nail in the coffin and result in permanent partition. Well done mate.

Partition is what you wanted since the 1950s and what you continue to want today. If it was up to you to put the final nail you would have done it long time ago.

You have no right whatsoever to take our lands, and as long as you insist on doing so you will be our enemy and you will be treated accordingly.

Cyprus can not be permanently partition because we will never gift our lands to you. When the balance of power will change our lands will be liberated either you will like it or not. And that is the only way our lands will be liberated, not with negotiations, since it became obvious from long time ago that you will accept no kind of solution unless it partitions Cyprus in two parts.

Interesting, even though I totally disagree with you (remember ENOSIS?) regarding our desire for partition I will move on and ask you this, when do you expect the balance of power to change? Are we talking about weeks, months, years or millenniums? Just a rough estimation will do give or take a millennium or two.

Why do you capitalize "Enosis"? It is not initials. Do you even know what it means?

Let me explain it to you. The Barbarian Turks invaded the Greek mainland and the Greek islands (one of which is Cyprus) and oppressed the Greek people for many centuries.

In 1821 the Greeks revolted seeking their freedom from the Turkish oppressors. The revolution in Cyprus was quickly oppressed by the Ottomans:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

However part of Greece managed to be liberated during that revolution. "Enosis" merely means "union" and it is the struggle of the remaining Greek territories to be liberated from the foreign oppressors and unite with the rest of Greece. This happened with Crete, Rhodes and many other Greek territories and islands that were gradually liberated.

Enosis was nothing more and nothing less than our right which foreign invaders have denied to us.

About the change of balance of power I don't know when exactly it will happen, but don't hope that you will manage to keep Cyprus for a millennium. Not even Ottoman empire lasted that long. What is certain is that we will not gift our lands to you, and sooner or later we will liberate Cyprus either you like it or not.

So, with total disregard to the 1960 constitution and without any consideration to the TC's you thought you could just gift Cyprus to Greece? Did you not consider what repercussions this may have? Didn't anybody with half a brain take time to read the constitution? I cant believe anybody can be so guilty and yet so bigoted, please, stop making a fool of yourself and move on.

The 1960 constitution should not have even been created. Since 1821 we decided that what we want for our lands is freedom from foreign imperialists and the creation of a united Greek state along with all other Greek island and territories.

The 1960 constitution was a result of blackmail and brute force used by foreign imperialists and not a result of the free will of the Cypriot people. You think we are going to abide by a constitution imposed by foreign imperialists? We are not your slaves mate. You can impose as many laws and rules as you want, but they mean absolutely nothing to us. We will continue to fight for our freedom so we can make the constitution, rules and laws of our own country ourselves.

What does it mean "gift Cyprus to Greece"?? Is like saying that Manchester was gifted to England. We are Greeks and Cyprus is a Greek island like the many other 100s of Greek islands. The only difference is that you denied to Cyprus its freedom, because if Cypriots were free to democratically choose then Cyprus would also be part of the Greek state like all other Greek islands.

[Piratis]

Who is going to make up for the 35 years we have lost, and the infinite amount of propaganda to make life as hard as it possibly can be for us, over here?

At least you have the option to live there. You didn't give the option to us, since you forced GCs out of there on gun point.

If you think it is hard to live there then you can always leave, like you forced us to do, but at least for you it is an option and nobody will steal your property if you choose to do so.

Funny how you demand to live without any problems on your ancestral land, but at the same time you don't want to allow to us to do the same. It is due to this that there has been no solution for 36 years. If you didn't insist on the ethnic cleansing of Greek Cypriots and the artificial creation of some "Turkish state" on land where the GCs have been the vast majority for 1000s of years, then there wouldn't be any Cyprus problem, and both you and the Greek Cypriots would be able to live without any problems on their own lands.

Oh yeah you had to move 100Km down south, that is such a bitch

Hardly comparable to being asked to leave the island is it?

You cannot live in your ancestral homes, because you support the denial of us living in ours.

Sorry the "balance of power" was eventually on our side

You forced us 100Km down south and you can move 100Km up north. Same thing. The only (major) difference is that for you is an option, and nobody will steal your lands while you are away, while the GCs had to run for their lives at gun point and their properties are now stolen.

Sure the balance of power currently (there is not going to be any "eventually" unless we gift our lands to you and stop caring for them) is on your side. But what you don't have on your side is any legal or moral ground to demand some "Turkish State" on land which was inhabited by a vast majority of GCs whom you ethnically cleansed.

Unfortunately for you your power is not enough to legalize such crimes and illegalities and you do have to suffer the consequences of your actions.

Our discussion started about what is "fair". You said that people understand "fair" deferentially. Maybe. But there are also some principles that all modern successful countries follow, such as democracy and human rights. We could follow those principles as well. But if you want more than your fair share because the balance of power currently favors you, then don't expect from us to just sit there and let you gain on our expense. We will fight back, and we can have a negative impact on your life in the same way you have a negative one on ours. Therefore stop crying about the "embargoes" etc, when at the same time you keep our lands under occupation. You wanted to gain with war on our expense, and it is silly from you if you expect that we will do nothing to stop you.