Cyprus-Forum.com

[cymart]

The Turkish Cypriot board for property compensation,which the Council of Europe told G.C.'s to apply to,whether they like the idea or not.

[Get Real!]

The Turkish Cypriot board for property compensation,which the Council of Europe told G.C.'s to apply to,whether they like the idea or not.

You mean TURKISH, not "TC" and it's called "IPC"... no?

Btw, it wasn't the Council of Europe but the ECHR!

[Get Real!]

MORE LIKE A SLEDGE HAMMER!A pile of bricks is about to descend on both sides here in the coming months and whichever one tries to play games this time around will be deep in brown stuff!
Bringing up the Varosha issue again,rather than going all out for an overall deal,was a tactical blunder by Christophias that he may well very much regret....an article in todays Politis suggests that the other side may counter-propose opening Varosha to its former owners but still under Turkish control as an intermim measure if a solution cannot be found!Knowing how manyG.C's already applied to EDAD for compensation,don't be surprised if many people from Varosha accept the invitation,rather than waiting indefinitely and maybe even losing their properties altogether.....This will cause devastating problems for Christophias and the political establishment on the G.C. side and may finally be the catalyst that changes the whole system here!

Thank you I predicted this, and it will chnage the dynamics forever. ALl we need is 20.000 GCs living in the TRNC paying taxes and abiding by our laws.

Maybe you should wait until your friend here gets his basic facts right first before agreeing with him over the most ludicrous scenario I've ever heard...

[Bananiot]

Cymart, a move by the TC side regarding Famagusta has been brewing for a while now. It is also true that many refugees have opted to apply to the IPC which was recognised by the ECHR and one wonders how many will opt to return to Famagusta under TC administration if the move is made. It might sound like a ludicrous scenario to some but one needs to see it from the Turkish side's view. In any case, the coming months will be very interesting.

[bill cobbett]

MORE LIKE A SLEDGE HAMMER!A pile of bricks is about to descend on both sides here in the coming months and whichever one tries to play games this time around will be deep in brown stuff!
Bringing up the Varosha issue again,rather than going all out for an overall deal,was a tactical blunder by Christophias that he may well very much regret....an article in todays Politis suggests that the other side may counter-propose opening Varosha to its former owners but still under Turkish control as an intermim measure if a solution cannot be found!Knowing how manyG.C's already applied to EDAD for compensation,don't be surprised if many people from Varosha accept the invitation,rather than waiting indefinitely and maybe even losing their properties altogether.....This will cause devastating problems for Christophias and the political establishment on the G.C. side and may finally be the catalyst that changes the whole system here!

Thank you I predicted this, and it will chnage the dynamics forever. ALl we need is 20.000 GCs living in the TRNC paying taxes and abiding by our laws.

Gosh was getting worried.... 'til VP tells us he predicted it, and we all know how VP's predictions turn out.

[Nikitas]

Defeatist idiocy has afflicted some people here worse than I thought. The Famagusta issue is a good example.

OK lets assume that Turkey, and do not forget it is Turkey in control of Famagusta, not the TCs, open it to its former owners and inhabitants. What do you have then you clever idiots?

You have 45000 Eu citizens living in occupied territory, and in that occupied territory they are exercising their right to elect EU deputies!!!!! These 45000 need only one incident of city wide civil disobedience to bring the whole TRNC facade tumbling down, when it tries to impose regulations contrary to EU rules, you know, simple things like VAT.

What will happen when these 45000 people want to apply the Eu principles of subsidiarity and elect their own local government? Who will stand in their way?

Obviously the return of Famagusta cannot happen because of the above. The Turks might offer it, and if they do we should take them up on the offer and insist that being in Famagusta in no way diminishes our EU rights, but this is a risk they will not take. Neither are they going to chance having 45000 people with full civil rights in their little gangster province, 45000 voters will upset the balance in no time.

And Bananiot, I am still waiting to hear what further concessions we should make to solve the Cyprus problem. I will hound you on this one.

[Nikitas]

So far from Bananiot's reposting of Charalambous' articles I infer that all those asking for the return of Morphou should be kicked down the stairs, the ones asking for Famagusta are idiots, conceding 50 000 settlers and the rotating presidency is no big deal, that we should shut our mouths because Turkey is a super power in the G20 and enjoying a period of economic growth.

So why bother negotiate at all then Bananiot? Why not officialise the status quo with a partition agreement? After all, Turkey regards the results of the 1974 invasion as a solution. And as you seem to be saying, we should not contradict this "super power", I forgot, you regard partition as "undesirable". But next to what you seem to be implying as a solution, partition looks decidedly the better alternative.

So one more time, Bananiot, paint a picture, a detailed one, of what a good settlement looks like to you. I really want to know because this BBF thing is confusing me. And many others too I think.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis, you have no idea of the tsunami that is approaching come November and December. LC is not a journalist by the way. He is an economist who has something to say and he says it. DT, he wrote of how we should go about it, in a number of posts in the past.

P.S. Just wait and see how this Famagusta business will boomerang on us ... as LC writes, the Turks are not the stupid Franks we once thought they were.

Whether that is true or not Bananiot makes absolutely no difference. So far we have not had a blueprint for a viable solution we could put our signature to. Everything presented thus far, such as the Annan Plan, was markedly worse than today's Status Quo, and I say this because not only would Cyprus still be partitioned, but we would have written off the RoC's status as a State which we control with full democratic rights, the rule of law and fundamental HR similar to any other EU member State. From a nation we would become a community with no political control over the entire island. Even if disaster awaits us in December, we still have the RoC, and life will go on! And let's be very clear about one thing. I don't believe for one second that anything significant will happen at that time. At worst, the international community may FORCE upon the Turks to hand over Famagusta, and in exchange, they may FORCE us to allow direct trade and flights.

Much better to keep things as they are! Because in the RoC, our citizens won't feel cheated as they will have their political say.

[DT.]

LC is not a journalist by the way..

No kidding

[Tony-4497]

Famagusta is the only negotiating card the Turkish side has in the territory chapter. Is it going to offer it to us before it secures our signature on an overall settlement agreement?

Bananiot (and Loucas C) take it for granted that in any solution not only will GCs not regain their properties in the TC-administered area but also that the territorial adjustments will be minor (i.e. just Famagusta - so the 18% TCs who own 12% of land will end up with a near-"pure" TC component state of 30% of land and 55% of coastline).

While you are portraying yourselves as "realists", you are in fact living in a fantasy world.. because a solution like this can NEVER pass a GC referendum.

The price that GCs will pay for any solution (loss of control of the RoC, legalisation of the effects of the invasion/ occupation incl loss of property/ territory rights, economic hardship etc etc) is substantial. For this to be made acceptable GCs will need to have something substantial in return.

As others mentioned above, choosing the status quo over a solution as you (and LC) imagine it is an absolute no-brainer for 80% of GCs.

My advice to Christofias at this stage would be to put on the table 2 main approaches:

1. True federation as agreed by Makarios - with FULL human and property rights, restitution of refugees etc (which also implies permanent GC president, TC vice) with TC-administered area per the same agreement (i.e. 29% as in this area there will be a very large GC population)

2. An Annan-plan type near-confederation - whereby GCs will accept (subject to referendum) concessions on their human/ property/voting rights (rotational presidency) and where the territory & property issues will be dealt with almost exclusively through EXCHANGE. This means that TC state will have land and coast sizes similar to the % ownership of the TC community. Both parties should agree that an international committee and courts should be involved in the determination of this - so it could be somewhat higher than the 12% per Land Registry (but not much higher).

The above should be widely PRed as 2 reasonable alternatives that the RoC (not the GC side) is putting forward to end the problem on its ground and secure the future and prosperity of both communities within the EU.

It should set a deadline for Turkey/ TCs to accept either one of the above 2 or a full return to legality i.e. the 1960 constitution. It should pre-declare that upon expiration it will start of a liberation struggle through legal means, end all negotiations, end Turkey's EU process, close the green line - until Turkey accepts one of the 3 alternatives.

Only then will we have re-established the problem as one of illegal occupation and land THEFT instead of a mere intercommunal difference on "re-unification".