Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Thirty six years of occupation and colonisation should have been enough for anyone to realise the game being played. Not the TCs. No, they still talk about the time when they were treated as second class citizens by the GCs.

So, which is better, being treated as second class citizens by the GCs or disappeared by the Turks. You choose.

Is the life of the average TC better than the life of a Turk in Rhodos or Kos? I have been to both islands and it seemed to me that the Turks there are way better off than TCs. Obvously that assertion will be treated as "tainted" because it comes from a GC. But facts are facts.

And no, I am not using the examples of Rhodos and Kos to justify Enosis. What they do prove is that living in the "enemy" country is better overall than living in the TRNC after 36 years of "liberation". One wonders what will make the TCs wake up and when.

I have more problems with being a second class citizen ANYWHERE because of my ethnicity, than a few Turks living around me.

What kind of rubbish is that?

Most of them do 3rd class jobs anyways so doesn't bother me, cheap labor. I don't really know many TC's who would do their work around here at the moment so works out for me.

It’s very short sighted to just see them as “workers” when they have surpassed your community’s population, are constantly producing locally born babies, and will sooner or later form a political group to push for dominance as is norm with human nature.

The long term effects of such serious issues must also be taken into consideration when making decisions/policy today.

[shahmaran]

Thirty six years of occupation and colonisation should have been enough for anyone to realise the game being played. Not the TCs. No, they still talk about the time when they were treated as second class citizens by the GCs.

So, which is better, being treated as second class citizens by the GCs or disappeared by the Turks. You choose.

Is the life of the average TC better than the life of a Turk in Rhodos or Kos? I have been to both islands and it seemed to me that the Turks there are way better off than TCs. Obvously that assertion will be treated as "tainted" because it comes from a GC. But facts are facts.

And no, I am not using the examples of Rhodos and Kos to justify Enosis. What they do prove is that living in the "enemy" country is better overall than living in the TRNC after 36 years of "liberation". One wonders what will make the TCs wake up and when.

I have more problems with being a second class citizen ANYWHERE because of my ethnicity, than a few Turks living around me.

What kind of rubbish is that?

Most of them do 3rd class jobs anyways so doesn't bother me, cheap labor. I don't really know many TC's who would do their work around here at the moment so works out for me.

It’s very short sighted to just see them as “workers” when they have surpassed your community’s population, are constantly producing locally born babies, and will sooner or later form a political group to push for dominance as is norm with human nature.

The long term effects of such serious issues must also be taken into consideration when making decisions/policy today.

Wow GR, you have just described Kikapu's "true Democracy", and unintentionally fired one at your own foot.

Thank you for confirming our worries with being a minority in a democracy where ethnic division can be a serious problem.

Now lets see which one is worse? Having Turks to out-vote you, or GC's;

- One does not want us here, the other just wants to be here where the numbers can be regulated through immigration and citizenship laws, we have no control over the GC's.

- One is filthy rich and we stand no chance in business with, as they have had 35 years head start, where the other one is mostly working class and is here in the search of a new life.

- One is seriously religious, well so is the other one but at least of the same kind and are familiar with secularism, you have never heard of it.

- The ones who do not want us here, want to rule the whole island, but the ones who just want to live here, well, they just want to stay and keep living, while most of their voting power will probably in our favor, though, still outnumbered.

So the question is not about who will dominate the island with numbers, anymore. That clearly is inevitable, but who will be the opposition?

"True democracy" has just collapsed on the table and is already an ethnocracy as I have suspected.

Discuss.

[Kikapu]

Wow GR, you have just described Kikapu's "true Democracy", and unintentionally fired one at your own foot.

You are assuming of course that you will be getting "True Democracy" with the Turks, in which case you think you will be better off with Turkey than the RoC under same circumstances. The only problem is, Turkey has never practiced "True Democracy".

Why don't you ask the Kurds if they are getting "True Democracy" from the Turks, and if not, what makes you think you would.?

[Kikapu]

Thirty six years of occupation and colonisation should have been enough for anyone to realise the game being played. Not the TCs. No, they still talk about the time when they were treated as second class citizens by the GCs.

So, which is better, being treated as second class citizens by the GCs or disappeared by the Turks. You choose.

Is the life of the average TC better than the life of a Turk in Rhodos or Kos? I have been to both islands and it seemed to me that the Turks there are way better off than TCs. Obvously that assertion will be treated as "tainted" because it comes from a GC. But facts are facts.

And no, I am not using the examples of Rhodos and Kos to justify Enosis. What they do prove is that living in the "enemy" country is better overall than living in the TRNC after 36 years of "liberation". One wonders what will make the TCs wake up and when.

I have more problems with being a second class citizen ANYWHERE because of my ethnicity, than a few Turks living around me.

What kind of rubbish is that?

Most of them do 3rd class jobs anyways so doesn't bother me, cheap labor. I don't really know many TC's who would do their work around here at the moment so works out for me.

You are being a little short sighted, Shah.

Tell me, Shah, what kind of jobs will the TCs get in the future in the north with their University diplomas if the RoC rejects all of the TCs as her citizens and cancels their EU passports if a permanent partition is formed, when in the meantime, most of the jobs have already been taken by the settlers no matter what grade jobs they may be. Perhaps you think the north will become part of the EU as a independent state along with Turkey. The reality is, neither one would become a EU member and the economies of both the north and Turkey will be the same, which means not too much economically for the people living in them..

[shahmaran]

Wow GR, you have just described Kikapu's "true Democracy", and unintentionally fired one at your own foot.

You are assuming of course that you will be getting "True Democracy" with the Turks, in which case you think you will be better off with Turkey than the RoC under same circumstances. The only problem is, Turkey has never practiced "True Democracy".

Why don't you ask the Kurds if they are getting "True Democracy" from the Turks, and if not, what makes you think you would.?

So when do you think an American Indian will be president?

[Kikapu]

Wow GR, you have just described Kikapu's "true Democracy", and unintentionally fired one at your own foot.

You are assuming of course that you will be getting "True Democracy" with the Turks, in which case you think you will be better off with Turkey than the RoC under same circumstances. The only problem is, Turkey has never practiced "True Democracy".

Why don't you ask the Kurds if they are getting "True Democracy" from the Turks, and if not, what makes you think you would.?

So when do you think an American Indian will be president?

Native Americans have their own separate Independent Nation away from the United States of America. They are independent. If any Native American wants to be involved in the US political system, they are welcomed to do so, if they take up the US citizenship.!

[shahmaran]

Thirty six years of occupation and colonisation should have been enough for anyone to realise the game being played. Not the TCs. No, they still talk about the time when they were treated as second class citizens by the GCs.

So, which is better, being treated as second class citizens by the GCs or disappeared by the Turks. You choose.

Is the life of the average TC better than the life of a Turk in Rhodos or Kos? I have been to both islands and it seemed to me that the Turks there are way better off than TCs. Obvously that assertion will be treated as "tainted" because it comes from a GC. But facts are facts.

And no, I am not using the examples of Rhodos and Kos to justify Enosis. What they do prove is that living in the "enemy" country is better overall than living in the TRNC after 36 years of "liberation". One wonders what will make the TCs wake up and when.

I have more problems with being a second class citizen ANYWHERE because of my ethnicity, than a few Turks living around me.

What kind of rubbish is that?

Most of them do 3rd class jobs anyways so doesn't bother me, cheap labor. I don't really know many TC's who would do their work around here at the moment so works out for me.

You are being a little short sighted, Shah.

Tell me, Shah, what kind of jobs will the TCs get in the future in the north with their University diplomas if the RoC rejects all of the TCs as her citizens and cancels their EU passports if a permanent partition is formed, when in the meantime, most of the jobs have already been taken by the settlers no matter what grade jobs they may be. Perhaps you think the north will become part of the EU as a independent state along with Turkey. The reality is, neither one would become a EU member and the economies of both the north and Turkey will be the same, which means not too much economically for the people living in them..

You are describing a time which was about, what, up until 7-8 years ago?

I personally think Turkey will be way better off at the moment, if she put a halt on all negotiations with the EU. And I am not suggesting it, just to see the RoC cry but for her own good.

Like in any class system, Kikapu, land owners will never be jobless and everyone else has already left anyways. As long as low class cheap labor keeps coming in from Turkey, who am I to complain? Do you see the Brits, or the Germans complain?

Specially when considering the alternative.

And I am not talking about some distant future, this is how it works now, everything we do in Lefke is done by cheap Turkish labor, not Cypriot, and I am sure I'm not the only one.

Cypriots do not work for minimum wage, they want to live in a hut and drive a convertible. They also want to renew it every few years while still living in a hut.

GC's worry about the Turkish settlers is not whatever "harm" they might bring in to the society nor the demographic changes, it is the economical improvement of the TC's, and the voting power they will have in their so called "true democracy", that's all.

[shahmaran]

Wow GR, you have just described Kikapu's "true Democracy", and unintentionally fired one at your own foot.

You are assuming of course that you will be getting "True Democracy" with the Turks, in which case you think you will be better off with Turkey than the RoC under same circumstances. The only problem is, Turkey has never practiced "True Democracy".

Why don't you ask the Kurds if they are getting "True Democracy" from the Turks, and if not, what makes you think you would.?

So when do you think an American Indian will be president?

Native Americans have their own separate Independent Nation away from the United States of America. They are independent. If any Native American wants to be involved in the US political system, they are welcomed to do so, if they take up the US citizenship.!

Oh right, the proportional land deal again, was it a GC who organized it?

Distant faint GC voice from the audience arises:

"But how could that be, they are the indigenous ppl who have lived there for 80 billion years and are pushed to a tiny bit of land la-di-da..."


Are you defending Imperialism Kikapu?

[kentish]

almost every gc on this forum and kikapu cannot stand the idea of a tc prospering so they will cling to every avenue that hinders any progress of tc.
this will inevitably lead to a permanent and recognised partition and the end of turkey eu aspirations and I welcome it because i cannot trust the gc.when this happens there will be nothing to discuss.
i dont understand why people on this forum cannot see where cyprus is heading

[Get Real!]

almost every gc on this forum and kikapu cannot stand the idea of a tc prospering so they will cling to every avenue that hinders any progress of tc.

Prosperity at someone else’s expense is haram! Read the Quran!

this will inevitably lead to a permanent and recognised partition

I'll bet you can't explain how...

...and the end of turkey eu aspirations and I welcome it because i cannot trust the gc.when this happens there will be nothing to discuss.

Not even if the CNG was to conduct a peace operation to liberate her territory and relieve the TCs from embargoes at the slightest opportunity?

i dont understand why people on this forum cannot see where cyprus is heading

If that's where Cyprus was heading you'd be laughing and ignore the CF altogether...