Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

Simon referring to Miltiades

I am glad you are sane enough to accept that you were indeed an enosis wanker and helped set the seed for what was to follow, along with the rest of your generation.

In the 50's the whole of the Greek Cyprus was an enosis wanker, even AKEL were demonstrating with banners shouting e,e,e,e,enosis! If you were around then, simon, you would have been an enosis wanker too.

Simon referring to Miltiades

I am glad you have also confirmed that you would select which wars you would defend Cyprus in!

Miltiades and most GC politicians as well as all Greek politicians as far as I know, have held the view that we can only solve the Cyprob at the negotiation table, not in the war field, for obvious to all sane people reasons.

Simon referring to Miltiades

What do you think 'deterrence' means idiot?

We can never, no matter how much we spend, bring our military up to scratch to enforce the notion you "invented" simon. If we could we would have done it tens of years ago. Talking about Israel is also besides the point because Jewish Croesus from across the world provided the pactolus of money to make Israel a regional superpower. Besides, deterrence does not mean solution. What makes you so sure that Turkey would want the rest of Cyprus. The Turks have demonstrated time and time again that they are not the stupid franks we assumed they were.

Simon referring to Miltiades

Your two people argument is pathetic and anachronistic, using a Turkish argument to rid us of our identity. Almost every nation on earth has various ethnicities, what binds them is nationality and citizenship. Cyprus would be no different from anywhere else.

You have distorted the argument. Miltiades and the majority of the political forces in Cyprus have accepted the need for a Bizonal, Bicommunal Federation as the only possible solution that will gurantee the removal of the Turkish army from Cyprus. The whole of the international community is unanimous on this. Yet, you think only armchair patriots like youself care about the liberation of Cyprus. Your prescription is one of disaster. It is simple and moronic, simon.

Bananiot I'm assuming that when people speak of a deterence here they are doing so in the logic of providing a big enough opportunity cost against Turkey in case one of those new Generals on the Turkish national security council thinks about ridding Turkey of the Cyprus problem in some other way.

In the same manner a more gutsy defense policy would demonstrate the exact same thing in situations such as Strovillia. If your counterpart shows a little more aggression then liberties will not be taken because that opportunity cost would come into play again.

Consider 3 years ago when a Turkish fighter jet did a fly-by over Strovolos, had that jet been shot down I doubt very much it would have led to war, but it would have led to a different understanding between the 2 sides.

You don't need to match the other sides armour to provide a detterent, you just need to make it costly enough for them that any adventures will take away resources and political leverage from other issues that are of higher priority to a nation. One of the first things we learnt in officers school.

[Bananiot]

DT, you disappoint me. Are we in the position to play war games? Are you really serious? We did this when Turkey was miles away and look at the result. Do you seriously believe that we should shoot down (can we?) Turkish jets that fly over Cyprus? Have you thought about the tourist industry? What will happen when the tourists on whom we depend on for day to day survival, do not turn up one year?

Deterrence sounds good, but big money is needed and I am not sure that even then we could reach this status. Have you seen the size of Cyprus on the map? I think our adversaries are laughing with us. Probably they will let us go on account of not being 100% upstairs.

[EPSILON]

So much to say Simon , and yet so little wisdom !
Listen you crude bastard , little shits like you I have chewed and spat out many a times , now piss off wanker go find your self a pushtokalamara to amuse your self malaka !!
How is that boy ? Need some more be my guest shit face !!

Is that the best you can come up with? Then keep it coming, I think the years spent on this forum has started to tame you.

Thats all you deserve , for now , kolopedo !!!

T/cs of London- Can you see? here is the prove of my previous post. Kolopedo is not a G/c dialog frace. He is just educated in the deep deep undergroud building of Greek int service in Athens!!!

[Simon]

Simon referring to Miltiades

I am glad you are sane enough to accept that you were indeed an enosis wanker and helped set the seed for what was to follow, along with the rest of your generation.

In the 50's the whole of the Greek Cyprus was an enosis wanker, even AKEL were demonstrating with banners shouting e,e,e,e,enosis! If you were around then, simon, you would have been an enosis wanker too.

Simon referring to Miltiades

I am glad you have also confirmed that you would select which wars you would defend Cyprus in!

Miltiades and most GC politicians as well as all Greek politicians as far as I know, have held the view that we can only solve the Cyprob at the negotiation table, not in the war field, for obvious to all sane people reasons.

Simon referring to Miltiades

What do you think 'deterrence' means idiot?

We can never, no matter how much we spend, bring our military up to scratch to enforce the notion you "invented" simon. If we could we would have done it tens of years ago. Talking about Israel is also besides the point because Jewish Croesus from across the world provided the pactolus of money to make Israel a regional superpower. Besides, deterrence does not mean solution. What makes you so sure that Turkey would want the rest of Cyprus. The Turks have demonstrated time and time again that they are not the stupid franks we assumed they were.

Simon referring to Miltiades

Your two people argument is pathetic and anachronistic, using a Turkish argument to rid us of our identity. Almost every nation on earth has various ethnicities, what binds them is nationality and citizenship. Cyprus would be no different from anywhere else.

You have distorted the argument. Miltiades and the majority of the political forces in Cyprus have accepted the need for a Bizonal, Bicommunal Federation as the only possible solution that will gurantee the removal of the Turkish army from Cyprus. The whole of the international community is unanimous on this. Yet, you think only armchair patriots like youself care about the liberation of Cyprus. Your prescription is one of disaster. It is simple and moronic, simon.

Precisely Bananiot, it was your generation including Miltiades and maybe even yourself that were the enosis supporters, and the seed was thereafter planted, so don't come here taking the moral highground telling me I'm the cause of the division. It makes you look foolish and hypocritical to say the least.

With regard to your second paragraph, at the moment GC politicians are trying to resolve the issue peacefully and I agree with exhausting peaceful methods. So what's your point? They're hardly going to say if these talks fail, it's war, are they?

If as you say, we can't deter, why are we wasting $600 odd million every year? I'm pointing out the gap in the logic. I actually don't agree with your assumption that we are not capable of providing a credible deterrence. It is your usual fatalism which most people see through. Look how they panicked over the S-300. That would have been a decent deterrent for starters, and nobody said deterrence means solution. You've jumped on the bandwagon without knowing where you're going. What makes you think Turkey won't attack again, or interfere in some further way with Cypriot sovereign rights, i.e. remember the threats and bully boy tactics over oil not too long ago? Wake up, there is a very bellicose neighbour at our door...

As to your final paragraph; no, it is you and Miltiades that have distorted the argument. You both are trying to turn this into, I want a war today, and you're for peace. If you read what I've said here you'll see that you're way off base. The GCs accepted a BBF as a major concession, as long as it is a true federation and not the loose unification of separate states, as you support. If you believe Cyprus will be reunited on an AP basis then it is you that is simple and moronic I'm afraid. And if that is the only option on the table, then we better start considering alternatives...

[denizaksulu]

The Cyprus Guard was preparing to build a military deterrent in the mid nineties. The Russian S-300 missile defense system was part of this. The TAF freaked out because it would of put a end to Turkish air superiority. I was in the US military during this time. The intelligence on the S-300 was it was very effective on F-16s. The Cyprus government should have called Turkey on their threat. The Russians where sending a Naval task force with aircraft and subs. The US and NATO did not support Turkey on a attack and held intelligence on the S-300. The Turks went to Israel for help. A big opportunity was missed. As soon as Cyprus moves close to a real deterrence Turkey makes threats same when Greek forces increase military on Cyprus.

Precisely my point. No strategy. They made the order then pulled out when Turkey resorted to its usual bully boy tactics. Half-hearted as I was saying before. Either see it through or don't make the order. It's laughable that Turkey can overload the island with US military hardware that shouldn't even be on the island, that's right, surprise surprise, they used US made weapons illegally, but the slightest chance of Cyprus getting some capability to defend itself and it is shock and horror. The word 'hypocrisy' doesn't seem to do it justice.

What a load of rubbish!
Do you know Turkish airforce has well over 1000 aircraft! How many missiles can Cyprus afford and where exactly were they going to station them?
Are you also aware Turkey is also in possession of pilotless - remote controlled reconnaissance planes? Who is going to stop them from surgical surprise attack on such sites - that would pose a threat to its aircraft flying over Turkey? (blowing them to smitherines). It was real threat of this that made the GC authorities do a U-turn rather than help from anywhere else!

Yes! I agree you should stop wasting your money on NG because they are no match for the Turkish military power if any such (highly unlikely) conflict were to take place!

BTW! I read that 5 of the new recruits fainted during graduation of the NG trainees the other day!
Just make sure you decide to use these boys against Turkish forces on a nice cool day - when the sun is not too high!

I believe that others have dealt with your ridiculous post already so I'm not going to waste much more time on it. You stated my post is "rubbish" then contradict nothing I've said. In fact you partly agreed with me! Typical Turkish nationalist, not even understanding my post but looking for any excuse to boast about the Turkish military against a tiny island.

Put it this way, the Turkish Air Force is so powerful that the mere mention of an S-300 made it shit it pants! Imagine then if Cyprus started spending and equipping properly!

Sorry to butt in, but were the USA 'shitting their pants' during the Cuban Missile Crises'?. Just asking.

[Simon]

The Cyprus Guard was preparing to build a military deterrent in the mid nineties. The Russian S-300 missile defense system was part of this. The TAF freaked out because it would of put a end to Turkish air superiority. I was in the US military during this time. The intelligence on the S-300 was it was very effective on F-16s. The Cyprus government should have called Turkey on their threat. The Russians where sending a Naval task force with aircraft and subs. The US and NATO did not support Turkey on a attack and held intelligence on the S-300. The Turks went to Israel for help. A big opportunity was missed. As soon as Cyprus moves close to a real deterrence Turkey makes threats same when Greek forces increase military on Cyprus.

Precisely my point. No strategy. They made the order then pulled out when Turkey resorted to its usual bully boy tactics. Half-hearted as I was saying before. Either see it through or don't make the order. It's laughable that Turkey can overload the island with US military hardware that shouldn't even be on the island, that's right, surprise surprise, they used US made weapons illegally, but the slightest chance of Cyprus getting some capability to defend itself and it is shock and horror. The word 'hypocrisy' doesn't seem to do it justice.

What a load of rubbish!
Do you know Turkish airforce has well over 1000 aircraft! How many missiles can Cyprus afford and where exactly were they going to station them?
Are you also aware Turkey is also in possession of pilotless - remote controlled reconnaissance planes? Who is going to stop them from surgical surprise attack on such sites - that would pose a threat to its aircraft flying over Turkey? (blowing them to smitherines). It was real threat of this that made the GC authorities do a U-turn rather than help from anywhere else!

Yes! I agree you should stop wasting your money on NG because they are no match for the Turkish military power if any such (highly unlikely) conflict were to take place!

BTW! I read that 5 of the new recruits fainted during graduation of the NG trainees the other day!
Just make sure you decide to use these boys against Turkish forces on a nice cool day - when the sun is not too high!

I believe that others have dealt with your ridiculous post already so I'm not going to waste much more time on it. You stated my post is "rubbish" then contradict nothing I've said. In fact you partly agreed with me! Typical Turkish nationalist, not even understanding my post but looking for any excuse to boast about the Turkish military against a tiny island.

Put it this way, the Turkish Air Force is so powerful that the mere mention of an S-300 made it shit it pants! Imagine then if Cyprus started spending and equipping properly!

Sorry to butt in, but were the USA 'shitting their pants' during the Cuban Missile Crises'?. Just asking.

I'm sure they were...Just shows you how a small island can punch well above its weight. Thanks for that.

[denizaksulu]

The Cyprus Guard was preparing to build a military deterrent in the mid nineties. The Russian S-300 missile defense system was part of this. The TAF freaked out because it would of put a end to Turkish air superiority. I was in the US military during this time. The intelligence on the S-300 was it was very effective on F-16s. The Cyprus government should have called Turkey on their threat. The Russians where sending a Naval task force with aircraft and subs. The US and NATO did not support Turkey on a attack and held intelligence on the S-300. The Turks went to Israel for help. A big opportunity was missed. As soon as Cyprus moves close to a real deterrence Turkey makes threats same when Greek forces increase military on Cyprus.

Precisely my point. No strategy. They made the order then pulled out when Turkey resorted to its usual bully boy tactics. Half-hearted as I was saying before. Either see it through or don't make the order. It's laughable that Turkey can overload the island with US military hardware that shouldn't even be on the island, that's right, surprise surprise, they used US made weapons illegally, but the slightest chance of Cyprus getting some capability to defend itself and it is shock and horror. The word 'hypocrisy' doesn't seem to do it justice.

What a load of rubbish!
Do you know Turkish airforce has well over 1000 aircraft! How many missiles can Cyprus afford and where exactly were they going to station them?
Are you also aware Turkey is also in possession of pilotless - remote controlled reconnaissance planes? Who is going to stop them from surgical surprise attack on such sites - that would pose a threat to its aircraft flying over Turkey? (blowing them to smitherines). It was real threat of this that made the GC authorities do a U-turn rather than help from anywhere else!

Yes! I agree you should stop wasting your money on NG because they are no match for the Turkish military power if any such (highly unlikely) conflict were to take place!

BTW! I read that 5 of the new recruits fainted during graduation of the NG trainees the other day!
Just make sure you decide to use these boys against Turkish forces on a nice cool day - when the sun is not too high!

I believe that others have dealt with your ridiculous post already so I'm not going to waste much more time on it. You stated my post is "rubbish" then contradict nothing I've said. In fact you partly agreed with me! Typical Turkish nationalist, not even understanding my post but looking for any excuse to boast about the Turkish military against a tiny island.

Put it this way, the Turkish Air Force is so powerful that the mere mention of an S-300 made it shit it pants! Imagine then if Cyprus started spending and equipping properly!

Sorry to butt in, but were the USA 'shitting their pants' during the Cuban Missile Crises'?. Just asking.

I'm sure they were...Just shows you how a small island can punch well above its weight. Thanks for that.

I doubt it but thank god the Cubans (or was it the Russians?) backed down.
The fear at the time was a WW3. We too were 's-o-p's)

[Simon]

The Cyprus Guard was preparing to build a military deterrent in the mid nineties. The Russian S-300 missile defense system was part of this. The TAF freaked out because it would of put a end to Turkish air superiority. I was in the US military during this time. The intelligence on the S-300 was it was very effective on F-16s. The Cyprus government should have called Turkey on their threat. The Russians where sending a Naval task force with aircraft and subs. The US and NATO did not support Turkey on a attack and held intelligence on the S-300. The Turks went to Israel for help. A big opportunity was missed. As soon as Cyprus moves close to a real deterrence Turkey makes threats same when Greek forces increase military on Cyprus.

Precisely my point. No strategy. They made the order then pulled out when Turkey resorted to its usual bully boy tactics. Half-hearted as I was saying before. Either see it through or don't make the order. It's laughable that Turkey can overload the island with US military hardware that shouldn't even be on the island, that's right, surprise surprise, they used US made weapons illegally, but the slightest chance of Cyprus getting some capability to defend itself and it is shock and horror. The word 'hypocrisy' doesn't seem to do it justice.

What a load of rubbish!
Do you know Turkish airforce has well over 1000 aircraft! How many missiles can Cyprus afford and where exactly were they going to station them?
Are you also aware Turkey is also in possession of pilotless - remote controlled reconnaissance planes? Who is going to stop them from surgical surprise attack on such sites - that would pose a threat to its aircraft flying over Turkey? (blowing them to smitherines). It was real threat of this that made the GC authorities do a U-turn rather than help from anywhere else!

Yes! I agree you should stop wasting your money on NG because they are no match for the Turkish military power if any such (highly unlikely) conflict were to take place!

BTW! I read that 5 of the new recruits fainted during graduation of the NG trainees the other day!
Just make sure you decide to use these boys against Turkish forces on a nice cool day - when the sun is not too high!

I believe that others have dealt with your ridiculous post already so I'm not going to waste much more time on it. You stated my post is "rubbish" then contradict nothing I've said. In fact you partly agreed with me! Typical Turkish nationalist, not even understanding my post but looking for any excuse to boast about the Turkish military against a tiny island.

Put it this way, the Turkish Air Force is so powerful that the mere mention of an S-300 made it shit it pants! Imagine then if Cyprus started spending and equipping properly!

Sorry to butt in, but were the USA 'shitting their pants' during the Cuban Missile Crises'?. Just asking.

I'm sure they were...Just shows you how a small island can punch well above its weight. Thanks for that.

I doubt it but thank god the Cubans (or was it the Russians?) backed down.
The fear at the time was a WW3. We too were 's-o-p's)

Actually, contrary to popular opinion, the Russians didn't back down. There was a compromise where Russia managed to have American missiles, located in Turkey I believe, removed. This was along with a guarantee the US would never invade Cuba.

[Get Real!]

DT, you disappoint me. Are we in the position to play war games? Are you really serious? We did this when Turkey was miles away and look at the result. Do you seriously believe that we should shoot down (can we?) Turkish jets that fly over Cyprus?

Bananiot, you obviously have ZERO military experience and knowledge so why do you insist on commenting on these matters?

You seem to think that just because Turkey has say 2,000 tanks in her inventory she can and will bring all 2,000 to Cyprus to fight against you but it doesn’t work like that because out of the 2,000 there are 300 odd grounded waiting for parts, 600 odd that are 30 year old technology, and 1,000 odd that are needed to stay in Turkey to guard her many borders, and so forth.

That’s how it is in real life and the same goes for fighter jets and every other piece of hardware a country possesses, and the more you have the greater the maintenance headache!

The other major issue is GETTING THEM to Cyprus which forms part of what is called “logistics” and it’s not easy, and if your enemy does a good job they can ensure you never get anything on the ground forcing you to fight with ever-dwindling hardware!

[Viewpoint]

DT, you disappoint me. Are we in the position to play war games? Are you really serious? We did this when Turkey was miles away and look at the result. Do you seriously believe that we should shoot down (can we?) Turkish jets that fly over Cyprus?

Bananiot, you obviously have ZERO military experience and knowledge so why do you insist on commenting on these matters?

You seem to think that just because Turkey has say 2,000 tanks in her inventory she can and will bring all 2,000 to Cyprus to fight against you but it doesn’t work like that because out of the 2,000 there are 300 odd grounded waiting for parts, 600 odd that are 30 year old technology, and 1,000 odd that are needed to stay in Turkey to guard her many borders, and so forth.

That’s how it is in real life and the same goes for fighter jets and every other piece of hardware a country possesses, and the more you have the greater the maintenance headache!

The other major issue is GETTING THEM to Cyprus which forms part of what is called “logistics” and it’s not easy, and if your enemy does a good job they can ensure you never get anything on the ground forcing you to fight with ever-dwindling hardware!

Why dont yuu give it a go GR? you GCs are all talk and no action.