Cyprus-Forum.com

[shahmaran]

So let me get this right;

The Cypriots are not responsible for the actions of the Greek army, but the Cypriots are responsible for the actions of the Turkish army? Please elaborate.

It's you who were justifying the actions of Turkey's army... and I quote.

Turkey's army has stopped you from having to become a Greek citizen, you now rule your own country.

A Cypriot wouldn't try and justify the actions of any foreign army in Cyprus, especially not against civilians.

Also justify this, when my village got attacked by buses full of people, none of them were soldiers, they were ALL "concerned" civilians, who just happen to be armed who also knew that everyone in my village were banned from having any weapons, the GC police would search houses regularly and anyone found with weapons would be taken away.

I'm not hear justifying any atrocity in Cyprus.

So how can you condemn an action which was partially in defense of another action which you never seem to comment on?!

Two wrongs don't make a right.

No point in only blaming the Turks, without talking about what really brought them here, is there?

No. But you see, Cyprus's history didn't start in 1974, or 1963, or 1960, or 1955, or 1571 (which is when the Turks first came). So the question is, how far back are you prepared to go? Here's how far back I'm prepared to go:

Overseas invaders/conquerors/rulers/colonisers of Cyprus since 1,500 BC.

Hittites
Assyrians
Myceneans
Arcadians
Phoenicians
Persians
Macedonians
Romans
Arabs
Byzantines
Crusaders
Knights Templar
Lusignans
Maronites
Venetians
Ottomans
British
Greek military junta
Turks

OK if you are prepared to go that far then you gotta ditch the Helenic background because you do not go that far, so then we can talk about how you got to be here as well?

I mean you did also get here some how, have you not? Or did "god" just put you here, like the Jews?

Even then, history shows that no one is simply "granted" land and autonomy simply because you live there, that is utter rubbish. Superpowers decide who lives where and how, and if you still want to push this silly argument then you have to first convince the white Americans to give the land back to the American Indians, then someone might actually listen to this preposterous argument.

But the reality is that we have been here for over 500 years and it was the Ottomans who gave you and your church the autonomy and the right to rule, which you never had. You lack of the ability to self-rule had turned this island into a military post that was threatening the Empire.

But even then we don't actually take the argument that far back.

There is no need to because the times when both people lived peacefully amongst each other was not that long ago, up until foreign provocation.

So why not just start the argument from where it can actually be solved, realistically?

[Oracle]

"Rihanna" is so thick and publicity-hungry she probably thinks she can get a bit of the attention JLo received.

You've got to be desperate and low to associate with a militarily occupied, illegal, rogue "state" where Apartheid is the name of the game!

[Malapapa]

OK if you are prepared to go that far then you gotta ditch the Helenic background because you do not go that far, so then we can talk about how you got to be here as well?

When have you ever heard me go on about Hellenic? Cyprus has been inhabited for at least 11,000 years. That's how far back real Cypriots can go.

I mean you did also get here some how, have you not? Or did "god" just put you here, like the Jews?

The first people on Cyprus didn't invade, colonise, displace, conquer or ethnically cleanse anyone. I'd say that gives them certain rights to this land, which may or may not be "God given".

Even then, history shows that no one is simply "granted" land and autonomy simply because you live there, that is utter rubbish. Superpowers decide who lives where and how, and if you still want to push this silly argument then you have to first convince the white Americans to give the land back to the American Indians, then someone might actually listen to this preposterous argument.

What argument? All I'm saying is Cyprus's problems didn't start in 1963.

But the reality is that we have been here for over 500 years

You'd have thought, after half a millennium, uninvited guests would have done their best to fit in with the locals.

and it was the Ottomans who gave you and your church the autonomy and the right to rule, which you never had. You lack of the ability to self-rule had turned this island into a military post that was threatening the Empire.

But even then we don't actually take the argument that far back.

There is no need to because the times when both people lived peacefully amongst each other was not that long ago, up until foreign provocation.

So why not just start the argument from where it can actually be solved, realistically?

Sure. But please do forgive Cypriots, whose roots on this island stretch back far longer than a mere few centuries, for having a sense of their own troubled history, of which the Turks are merely the most recent of a long, long line of irritants.

[shahmaran]

"Rihanna" is so thick and publicity-hungry she probably thinks she can get a bit of the attention JLo received.

You've got to be desperate and low to associate with a militarily occupied, illegal, rogue "state" where Apartheid is the name of the game!

We are talking about a popstar Oracle, thick and publicity-hungry is the main requirement to be one.

Plus just because you do not get to rule it yourself, does not make it an Apartheid, however, if I was forced to live under the RoC rule, then that would have.

[Oracle]

"Rihanna" is so thick and publicity-hungry she probably thinks she can get a bit of the attention JLo received.

You've got to be desperate and low to associate with a militarily occupied, illegal, rogue "state" where Apartheid is the name of the game!

We are talking about a popstar Oracle, thick and publicity-hungry is the main requirement to be one.

Plus just because you do not get to rule it yourself, does not make it an Apartheid, however, if I was forced to live under the RoC rule, then that would have.

You are not forced to live anywhere, Shah. That is the difference. But, 200,000 GCs are FORCED to live away from their homes.

You still don't get it. Reading some of your posts today, it's like listening to some teenager talking about some Xbox-Live game!

It is an Apartheid if the north was cleansed of Greeks and permanent residential access is denied to Greeks! Face the TRUTH!

[zan]

Malapapa wrote.

All I'm saying is Cyprus's problems didn't start in 1963

Yes it did mate...To the living who are still living it. Its no good you keep using that phrase and hoping it so. If you can remember any of the other dates you have posted then you must be older than I thought

[zan]

"Rihanna" is so thick and publicity-hungry she probably thinks she can get a bit of the attention JLo received.

You've got to be desperate and low to associate with a militarily occupied, illegal, rogue "state" where Apartheid is the name of the game!

We are talking about a popstar Oracle, thick and publicity-hungry is the main requirement to be one.

Plus just because you do not get to rule it yourself, does not make it an Apartheid, however, if I was forced to live under the RoC rule, then that would have.

You are not forced to live anywhere, Shah. That is the difference. But, 200,000 GCs are FORCED to live away from their homes.

You still don't get it. Reading some of your posts today, it's like listening to some teenager talking about some Xbox-Live game!

It is an Apartheid if the north was cleansed of Greeks and permanent residential access is denied to Greeks! Face the TRUTH!

They weren't forced into being refugees by the Turks but by the Greeks who stopped them exchanging their land with that in the south and getting on with their lives.

[shahmaran]

OK if you are prepared to go that far then you gotta ditch the Helenic background because you do not go that far, so then we can talk about how you got to be here as well?

When have you ever heard me go on about Hellenic? Cyprus has been inhabited for at least 11,000 years. That's how far back real Cypriots can go.

I mean you did also get here some how, have you not? Or did "god" just put you here, like the Jews?

The first people on Cyprus didn't invade, colonise, displace, conquer or ethnically cleanse anyone. I'd say that gives them certain rights to this land, which may or may not be "God given".

Even then, history shows that no one is simply "granted" land and autonomy simply because you live there, that is utter rubbish. Superpowers decide who lives where and how, and if you still want to push this silly argument then you have to first convince the white Americans to give the land back to the American Indians, then someone might actually listen to this preposterous argument.

What argument? All I'm saying is Cyprus's problems didn't start in 1963.

But the reality is that we have been here for over 500 years

You'd have thought, after half a millennium, uninvited guests would have done their best to fit in with the locals.

and it was the Ottomans who gave you and your church the autonomy and the right to rule, which you never had. You lack of the ability to self-rule had turned this island into a military post that was threatening the Empire.

But even then we don't actually take the argument that far back.

There is no need to because the times when both people lived peacefully amongst each other was not that long ago, up until foreign provocation.

So why not just start the argument from where it can actually be solved, realistically?

Sure. But please do forgive Cypriots, whose roots on this island stretch back far longer than a mere few centuries, for having a sense of their own troubled history, of which the Turks are merely the most recent of a long, long line of irritants.

You are basing your argument on grey grounds my friend.

There is no such thing as a REAL Cypriot.

There never was such a thing. "Nation states" are imaginary borders, it is a Nazi notion.

Cyprus has people from many ethnic groups and only language has caused them to divide recently.

You cannot separate people ethnically, it is impossible, specially on long-disputed grounds such as Cyprus or Anatolia in general.

So, where do you want to start dividing?

From the day the Ottomans started ruling?

Maybe we should take it on from the Persians, after all they were not Greek speaking either, neither were they Christian nor they fit in.

This argument based on the Turks coming from Mongolia, out of the blue, one day just turning up, and started to take everything, even Cyprus, is a serious laughing stock for historians, a children bed story. It was a process that went on for thousands of years, many kingdoms and rulers, Turks are not even a nation as they claim to be so. The Ottomans ruling class were not even Turkish! Plus everywhere the Ottomans ruled they shifted people around in order to stop this sort of ethnic gang-up, so you are in serious trouble if you really are planning to root back and find out who you are

If this junk really is in your curriculum then I truly am sorry for you, but now we live in an age where you can get real knowledge without having to swallow everything nationalistic governments feed you, most of it is absolute fantasy.

I mean just look at what they have done to poor Oracle!

[shahmaran]

"Rihanna" is so thick and publicity-hungry she probably thinks she can get a bit of the attention JLo received.

You've got to be desperate and low to associate with a militarily occupied, illegal, rogue "state" where Apartheid is the name of the game!

We are talking about a popstar Oracle, thick and publicity-hungry is the main requirement to be one.

Plus just because you do not get to rule it yourself, does not make it an Apartheid, however, if I was forced to live under the RoC rule, then that would have.

You are not forced to live anywhere, Shah. That is the difference. But, 200,000 GCs are FORCED to live away from their homes.

You still don't get it. Reading some of your posts today, it's like listening to some teenager talking about some Xbox-Live game!

It is an Apartheid if the north was cleansed of Greeks and permanent residential access is denied to Greeks! Face the TRUTH!

Dear Oracle, look up what Apartheid really means and come back.

The only time it could really be called an Apartheid was when the Turkish speaking Cypriots were kicked out of the government and racial segregation started in ALL levels.

Thats what an Apartheid is my friend, when an ethnic group rules another one and tries to call it a "democracy". We do not want to dominate you, why do you want to dominate us? What the fuck is wrong with you?

I do not wish to be a part of your so called democracy, why are you forcing me to?

You want to live in you homes, come and live there, you are free to do so.

[Malapapa]

Malapapa wrote.

All I'm saying is Cyprus's problems didn't start in 1963

Yes it did mate...To the living who are still living it.

Try looking beyond your nose and stop being so self-obsessed. The TC's problems may have started in 1963 but Cyprus's problems didn't. Geddit?

Its no good you keep using that phrase and hoping it so. If you can remember any of the other dates you have posted then you must be older than I thought

Wiser maybe.