Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

So why is the TRNC more obviously Turkified than Sicily is Italian, or Corsica French? The reliance of an external threat is a weak excuse. The more likely answer is that Turkey has such a huge identity insecurity that it has to reinforce turkishness at every step of the way. That is not due to any external threat, more to possible internal challenges. The TCs did not have such problems, they always knew who they were, but along comes Turkey with its Kemalis-Islamist psychosis to steam roll the one and only community that did not need such treatment.

That there are people who say this is OK is the fascinating aspect here.

Now dont you go tellimg me that there were Turks on Santorini and Symi. Even the Ottoman tax collectors would not go there, preferring to subcontract the jobs to foreigners.

As an outsider I cant blame you for thinking like that because as the old saying goes " You cant tell us apart".... We all look the same

We are Turkish Cypriots Nikitas so the similarities should not shock you but the difference between Istanbul and the TRNC is vast...As vast as the examples you have given but when your eyes are focused on one idea then you will only see what you will see....You might as well ask me what influence the 21st century has had on the entire island......You want to isolate the TRNC as the only part of Cyprus that has changed but it clearly is not true.......The Greek flags flying in the South and singing the GReek national anthem has to have more Greek influence than a few Turks setting up shop...So if by using a few local traditions to separate Greek islands from the mainland is your game then I can give you hundreds from the TRNC and Turkey that will distance them for your pleasure and reassurance......You have two sets of eyes that you are viewing things with Nikitas and your bias is there for all to see...Perhaps when the "RoC" starts collecting ALL the taxes that its supposed to and closes the door on family corruption you might get a few GCs lamenting the old days when their uncle could get them off the murder or rape charge just by making a few phone calls......

[Nikitas]

I was in Cyprus a couple of years ago. What I did see on official buildings was the Cyprus flag flying alongside the EU flag. In some places there were Greek flags, no one is denying this. But in the RoC there is none of that maniacal need to reaffirm national identity at every stop. No one has felt the need to change Turkish street names, as in the TC areas of Larnaca and Limassol. There are no photos of any equivalent of Attaturk in every school or shop. My passport has Turkish written in it, and the excuse that it is an official language of the republic etc can only bring the retort why is there no Greek in TRNC IDs, after all they are not Turkish, they are supposedly Cypriot.

In short, you refuse to see that what has been happening post 1974 is the establishment of an ethnically pure Turkish statelet in the north. The policy pursued has been one of frantic tirukification and uprooting of all reminders that Cyprus is not only this or that but a mix. Enosis has been achieved in the north while any hints of it are rapidly disappearing in the south.

[zan]

I was in Cyprus a couple of years ago. What I did see on official buildings was the Cyprus flag flying alongside the EU flag. In some places there were Greek flags, no one is denying this. But in the RoC there is none of that maniacal need to reaffirm national identity at every stop. No one has felt the need to change Turkish street names, as in the TC areas of Larnaca and Limassol. There are no photos of any equivalent of Attaturk in every school or shop. My passport has Turkish written in it, and the excuse that it is an official language of the republic etc can only bring the retort why is there no Greek in TRNC IDs, after all they are not Turkish, they are supposedly Cypriot.

In short, you refuse to see that what has been happening post 1974 is the establishment of an ethnically pure Turkish statelet in the north. The policy pursued has been one of frantic tirukification and uprooting of all reminders that Cyprus is not only this or that but a mix. Enosis has been achieved in the north while any hints of it are rapidly disappearing in the south.

The world has allowed the identity to exist by the pressure put upon them by both the "RoC" and Greece Nikitas whereas the TC people have not been allowed to exist in any form. In fact we have been thwarted at every turn in doing so by the Greek propaganda machine. I asked why a TC newspaper was not flying the TRNC flag in North London and his response was " The Greeks are very organised. They will be throwing stones through my windows and threatening my life within minutes of it going up", was his response. So it suited our need for some sort of identity and a vestige of retaliation to fly the Turkish flag. We have our own sorry lot that does not even recognise the TRNC flag or state when it is all they have, because they think that if they don't then the Greeks will listen to them more.....They cant see that it has not worked one little bit but better that then givingbtheir own people support

So again....You are not comparing like with like and are no being honest (For what ever reason be it want or blindness) the close ties that the "RoC" has with Greece and that circumstances has had a similar effect on them too....They cannot afford to let go just yet Nikitas and if it is done in full view or under the counter, only a fool or a short sighted person will say they are miles apart...

[shahmaran]

Shahmaran wrote:

"Considering the fact that even many of the GC's wanted to be a part of Greece If they had succeeded to do so, this place would have been no different than Santorini or Simi. "

Presumably you have been to both islands and do not seem to have regsitered how different they are compared to each other let alone Cyprus. I am not referring to the topography, which is obviously different.

Did you notice the catholic churches in Santorini for instance? Did you notice that Santorini has the signs of a mostly agcrigultural society, while Symi looks more ike a wealthy suburb and almost all its houses are neoclassical mansions? Did you try to figure out the difference or how the people of Symi lived and prospered without an inch of cultivated land in the days before tourism?

How did Enosis work out in big islands, like Crete, Siciy, Sardegnia and Corsica? Was any of the "motehrlands" able to steamroll its way in these islands? I am no proponent of Enosis, but seeing how things have worked out, it seems that GCs were in principle for it and in practice against, while the TCs were opposed but have submitted to a unique process of absorption with Turkey in what amounts to the most complete and total Enosis ever practiced in any Mediterranean island. The TRNC is more Turkish than Sicily is Italian, Corsica French or Crete Greek.

Symi and Santorini have preserved more of their local culture than the TRNC has.

That is very open to debate Nikitas.

I don't know how much of Turkey you have personally seen, but I am yet to see a part of it that reminds me of Cyprus. Cyprus, as much as you believe has lost its heritage, is still VERY different to anywhere in Turkey, even the people.

Have you met any Turks that have been living in Cyprus for some time now?

They ALL sound Cypriot, yet I still have not met a Cypriot that sounds Turkish, even the ones who have lived there and come back.

Architecture has not changed that much either, so I do not know what you mean when you say we have lost "it", what have we lost?

Most of the Turks who came have adopted in some way.

[Get Real!]

The world has allowed the identity to exist by the pressure put upon them by both the "RoC" and Greece Nikitas whereas the TC people have not been allowed to exist in any form. In fact we have been thwarted at every turn in doing so by the Greek propaganda machine.

Your community is stupid! They think that by swimming against the river's flow it’ll change its direction!

[zan]

The world has allowed the identity to exist by the pressure put upon them by both the "RoC" and Greece Nikitas whereas the TC people have not been allowed to exist in any form. In fact we have been thwarted at every turn in doing so by the Greek propaganda machine.

Your community is stupid! They think that by swimming against the river's flow it’ll change its direction!

Didn't one of your "Freedom fighters" do exactly that to gain independence???

[Kikapu]

I can understand your distrust of mainland Turks but I get that sort of treatment where ever I go so my own brothers doing that is no excuse to ditch them. As for my experience; I have had positive results as well. I was treated like royalty, for that very reason, my TC accent. I was told, in the middle of Lefcosa, that they were happy that I was using their facilities and that not many TCs do. In asked a while back if this was true of TCs and got a rather abrupt answer from Ice-man.

Zan, this may come as a surprised to you, but I do not have anything against Turks in general. Over the years, I'm sure I have spent more time in Turkey than you have. They are very proud and hard working people. What I object to is Turkey's policy in invading my country of Cyprus under the pretence of saving the TCs and then flooding the place with her own people. Naturally, all those Turks who came to Cyprus came with the knowledge that they were displacing the indigenous Cypriots from their homes and lands and make it their own. I cannot have any sympathy for these people in what ever happens to them at the present and in the future since they are doing no better than their own governments policy. They are not "lost people" and do have their own country of Turkey, and that's where they belong. You want to accept them with open arms for them participating in war crimes against humanity, that's your business. I and many TCs in Cyprus does not share your acceptance of these Illegal Aliens being part of the TC community or being part of Cyprus. They are nothing but opportunists who are enjoying the spoils of war along with the fascists from the TC community, as well as displacing the TC culture and identity from Cyprus. You make yourself an accomplice in helping them eradicate your Cypriot culture and identity of the Turkish Cypriots. If you say that hasn't happened yet, it is early days yet. By the time you realise it, it will be all too late.

I don't give much credence to tittle tattle mate and have realised long ago that everyone is insecure and always look for the slightest difference to pick on one another. You have no idea how many Turkish shops and restaurants are opening and have opened all around the UK so I am well used to mixing. Not that my family have not had mainland Turks as friends before. Our politics are the same though which I cant say the same for the GCs. Nonetheless, they all live under the TRNC government and will do. You can live under Greek rule and lump it for all I care and wish you all the luck in the world but I am far happier living as a TC than a muslim Greek. Sorry but thats the way it is and reforms will come and the TRNC will work.......After all, why else would the "RoC" do all it can to stop us from doing so

I have no intentions of living under any "Greek Rule" or be "Muslim Greek" in the RoC, Zan. This is the propaganda that all you NeoPartitionist propagate as a scare tactics. Sorry, but it does not wash with me. It may work with all the fascists, the gullible and NeoPartitionists, but not with me. It's funny you don't mind living under Turkish Rule in the north, but afraid to live as a Cypriot with the GCs. Times have changed from the days of the 60's, not only in Cyprus but around the world. BBF under western Democratic values with north and south states is all the TCs need to feel secure as a community as well be part of all of Cyprus. The fact that you would rather be an accomplice of stealing land of other Cypriots along with Turkey and the settlers to make it your own and to try to become a separate state, makes you no different than all those Illegal Aliens who have become accomplice in war crimes against humanity.

You have taken the easy route of blame and ridicule with lies and exaggeration., I have decided to help build a better future. My cup is half full. I need not worry about it being full. Your cup is always half empty with a leaky cracked glass. It is only a matter of time before its empty and you will be the friend of the "Cypriots". Please take a counter with you so you can record how many times you are introduced as "My TC friend" or even worse, "My honorary Cypriot friend".........

You are once again talking in riddles, Zan.

How can you build a better future for the TCs when since 1974 they have been made to become part of the corrupted society created by their fascist leaders and Turkey. All you are doing is perpetuating the corrupted society in your method of help build as better future. You are helping to exterminate the TC identity and culture. If that's your definition of "help build", I would hate to see you "help destroy" of the TC community.!

I was speaking to a forum member a while back when I said to him that I felt lucky because I had the TRNC as my home. His response was that he was luckier because he had the whole island. True...But...He, and you, will never feel at home in either.......I still consider myself lucky.

There are illusions and there are realities. You think the "trnc" is your home, but the reality is, the land that the "trnc" sits on is also the home also of 180,000 indigenous GCs that were kicked out by the Turkish Army. If you think you can enjoys spoils of war and Sins of Haram on the pain and sufferings of other Human Beings just so that you can call their land as being your home, then I would say that your "Humanity Glass" is completely empty and full of holes.!

[shahmaran]

I don't get it, why is our society "corrupt", and theirs not?

What makes them more Cypriot then us?

If being separated is the reason, then we are both on the same boat, we both have foreigners flooding in and we both have cleansed our side from the other.

[EPSILON]

According to some Greek Cypriot Opposition Party members, Christofias is suspected to agree
To a two republic state partition of 28% Turkish Cypriot and 72% Greek Cypriot including the
Hand over of the northern British Base to the GC-ROC state as part of a UN Comprehensive
Blue print. This will apparently be submitted to Referendum on both sides in early Jan 2011.
Believe it or not, this is the apparent closure Christofias is now looking for as he doesn't want
To chance the future of the talks to any GC future leader as they will "simply not have the
Ability to avoid the complete recognition of the TRNC when a federal deal fails".

The two states will be known as follows: The Greek Cypriot Republic of Cyprus, and the TRNC.

I'm sure the former Glafkos Clerides also said the same thing, but after his departure and not
Before!

Sorry for any typo errors as I'm writing this on my Blackberry.

There is not any Greek or G/C politician who has the strenght to sign or suggest such a solution- After so many lies for so many years they do not have the flexibility to even suggest such a solution.(they just looking for a solution which will finally create the same bsht result as in 1974) Pesronally i would vote in favor in such a referendum -of course after deleting the word Cypriot from the title on the South state.!!!!and forget about guarantee of any third country.

[Kikapu]

I don't get it, why is our society "corrupt", and theirs not?

What makes them more Cypriot then us?

If being separated is the reason, then we are both on the same boat, we both have foreigners flooding in and we both have cleansed our side from the other.

Shah,

The "trnc" is in existence because of Invasion and Occupation by Turkey and the expulsion of the indigenous population that lived there forcibly removed by killings and rapes. Turkey and the TC leaders then gave the properties of all those evicted Cypriots to the TCs, to the settlers and sold the rest to whom ever wanted to buy it at dirt cheap prices, and even today after 36 years, the legal owners of those properties are denied access to them. The whole society in the north has been morally corrupted by their leaders and Turkey to become an accomplice in violating other Cypriots Human Rights, whether any decent TCs wanted to go along with this practice or not. They were all forced into becoming part of this created corrupted society, where what most of what the north has, is what most of north does not belong to them, but stolen from others. I can't find a better definition of the north under these circumstances than call it a "corrupted society".!