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Anorthosis Trabzonspor 2nd leg

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby petethegreek » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:07 pm

Othellos wrote:Okay ...I did some search online and it seems that following 9/11 there has been at least one case where a plane passenger in the US had an explosive device hidden in his shoes. If this is why people are asked to take off their shoes in airports, it makes more sense to do this before they board the plane and not after they land. Therefore and unless I am missing something, it seems that there was no need to ask the football players of either team to have their shoes removed, either in Cyprus or in Turkey. Of course, a shoe can always be used to beat the hell out of someone. Even worse, it can be used as a stinking weapon like brother suggests :wink:

O.


Or footware can be classed as an offensive weapen. Especially when attached to the feet of free-scoring Anorthosis players!
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Postby Bananiot » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:11 am

Right, slowly but steadily the truth is coming out. According to "Politis" the Turkish delegation that arrived in Larnaca for the first leg of the match were all made to take their socks off at immigration. Apparently the Turks simply retaliated in Trapzon. Also, many TC supporters tried to mingle with the Anorthosis supporters in order to support the Cypriot team but the police did not let them. Any will to support the Cypriot team soon fizzled out when the nationalist slogans started, many of them in perfect turkish, from the Anorthosis supporters.
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Postby Othellos » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:43 pm

Bananiot wrote:Right, slowly but steadily the truth is coming out. According to "Politis" the Turkish delegation that arrived in Larnaca for the first leg of the match were all made to take their socks off at immigration. Apparently the Turks simply retaliated in Trapzon. Also, many TC supporters tried to mingle with the Anorthosis supporters in order to support the Cypriot team but the police did not let them. Any will to support the Cypriot team soon fizzled out when the nationalist slogans started, many of them in perfect turkish, from the Anorthosis supporters.


My friend Bananiot

Nationalist slogans were unavoidable in a game like this. The fact that the Turkish team played in Cyprus first made no difference at all. In other words, the thousands of turkish and "trnc" flags in Trabzonspor's stadium, Ataturk's voice being broadcasted from the loudspeakers during the match were to happen anyway and it was not a matter of retaliation to the Greek flags in Nicosia during the first game (which were also going to happen anyway).

Regarding the behaviour of the Cypriot police, I think that they were more concerned with making sure that no one got hurt and less with letting GCs and TCs mingle together (although it is my understanding that this did happen in some cases without any problems). Maybe you think that this was an extreme and wrong thing to do, but then again neither you nor I were the ones responsible for the security of the spectators during the game.

I understand that your above criticism comes from Costas Constantinou's column in today's Politis which I often read and enjoy for the most part. I was somewhat disappointed however with some of his ironic and unfair comments about Anorthosis. To start with, the club's emblem is a Phoenix (a mythical bird that rises from its own ashes) and not a "psofopoulli". After all the Colonels took power in Greece 56 whole years after Anorthosis was founded. And yes, I too can see how building a chapel that will be dedicated to Panagia Soumela is extreme, if the only reason behind its construction will be a victory in a football game. One can also question the meaning of having a chapel right next to the stadium considering some of the slogans that are chanted in there every weekend during football games. Apparently, those few who travelled with Anorthosis to Turkey were quite impressed and quite shocked to see that the Greek element still exists in that part of the country and perhaps this is one of the reasons behind the decision to build such a chapel. In any event, there is nothing wrong, unjust or evil in building a chapel, right?

As far as i am concernbed, after 1974 all of our refugee clubs have struggled to survive with several of them not making it . Neos Aiwnas Trikomou for example which was the oldest club in Cyprus (founded in 1905) does not exist anymore. What anorthosis has achieved in the last 10-15 years (several championships and cups in football and volleyball, own stadium, European presence etc) is no small achievement, especially when one takes into account the conditions under which it happened. This club and its teams still bring together thousands of people from Famagusta who are now scattered all over Cyprus and in exile. It is not an easy thing to have thousands of people chanting their town's name when the town itself does not exist anymore. I hope you get my point.

O.
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Postby Bananiot » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:16 pm

You are right, it was in the stated column of "Politis" newspaper and the reason I thought of letting the members of the forum know about the socks is because we made a lot of fuss about nothing. I agree with you that Anorthosis performed very well in beating the Turkish team (even Talat congratulated Anorthosis) but I cannot place any other importance on this performance other than sporting success. The fact that TC's came to support Anorthosis (the Cypriot team) but were put off by the crowd, reminds me of the darkest periods of Cyprus when by our sheer stupidity we pushed the TC's into the arms of Turkey. Generally speaking I get very sad when sporting successes, which are hard to come by, are associated with national and political matters. This was standard practice in totalitarian regimes and shows above all lack of respect for the opponent which directly opposes the sporting ideals. After all, Anorthosis feat is great, because of the opponent. Happily, and I must stress this, the players of both teams, showed a lot of respect and sportsmanhip for each other. If the crowds behaved similarly, our world would have been a much happier place to live in.
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Postby Main_Source » Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:15 pm

Bananiot, do you think GC are the only football fans to turn nationalisitic in a match like this???

Do you know what happened the last time Ireland played England in football? Or what The Sun printed on the front page the last time England played Germany. Or how about the international war that broke out in the 80's after two South American international teams played eachother (I think it was Bolivia and Venezuela).

You seem to have a passion to paint anything that is Greek in a negative light and using this football match as an example.

Also, it's a shame that the GC and TC fans may not have been allowed to mingle (even though I have heard different from other sources)...but I work as a steward at a major football ground in London...and when ever there is a tiny hint that trouble may occur between two sets of fans...we are told to escort away fans from out of the home fans seating area. This not only includes other English football rivals...but even fans from clubs like Ajax or Lens (and how much real rivalry do you hear from English / Dutch and French people?). It is not a part of the law to have fans from separate teams split up...but we have to do this for particular reasons.

I have also heard that UEFA put this much in a high risk category....therefore certain measues have to be taken in order for the match to go ahead and the members from the clubs have to meet UEFA officials. How do you know that UEFA didnt ask for such a segregation? I dont live in Cyprus but do GC police segregate GC and TC anywhere else in the free part of Cyprus?

Please do just a TINY bit of research before going into your way-over-the-top Greek apologist ramblngs.
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Postby Othellos » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:40 pm

The fact that TC's came to support Anorthosis (the Cypriot team) but were put off by the crowd, reminds me of the darkest periods of Cyprus when by our sheer stupidity we pushed the TC's into the arms of Turkey.


While I agree with you that at the end of the day this was just another football game and that politics should not mix with sports, I still believe that what we saw in both games was unavoidable, considering the current situation between Cyprus and Turkey. Expecting the behavior of the entire crowd in a football game like this, to resemble that of a crowd in tennis games is utopian. People always shout things at each other in football games and personally I do not remember ever attending a single football game that was different.

You write that there were TCs who went to support Anorthosis in the first game but were put off by the behavior of the crowd. My understanding is that what bothered these TCs most was the presence of so many Greek flags in the stadium. Again, was this something not to be expected in a game with a team from Turkey? Weren't the Turkish flags that appeared when Trabzonspor scored in Nicosia just as expected? Weren't the thousands of Turkish and "trnc" flags in last Tuesday's game were also expected?

Generally speaking I get very sad when sporting successes, which are hard to come by, are associated with national and political matters. This was standard practice in totalitarian regimes and shows above all lack of respect for the opponent which directly opposes the sporting ideals.


Personally I cannot compare what happened during the Cyprus game with what happens in totalitarian regimes, if this is what you are implying with the above statement. After all, the only official "directive" regarding the game in Nicosia was that everyone should behave well and that no banners with political content would be allowed in the stadium.

Just a couple of months ago, the Greek National team traveled to Istanbul to play against the Turkish National team for the World Cup qualifiers (that was a very important game for both teams). In every seat of the stadium there were a Turkish flag and a T-shirt awaiting every supporter of the Turkish team. Who made the decision to put those there and why? Last Tuesday evening, the stadium loudspeakers in Trapezounta were playing Ataturk's taped messages (something about how great it is to be a Turk) again and again. What on earth does Ataturk have to do with the Champions League anyway and what about Trabzonspor's all non-Turkish players?

The main issue in a "unique" game like this, Bananiot, was to ensure that no REAL trouble occurred and I am sure you are smart enough to understand that. In Trapezounta, GCs were attacked on at least 2 occasions by an angry Turkish mob and from what I understand, on one of them the Turkish police had to even fire gun shots in the air to disperse them. Fortunately, nothing like that ever happened in the Nicosia match, although we have violent behavior by some idiots in games between GC teams like AEL Vs APOEL for example. It is also my understanding that the behavior of some football "fans" in Turkey can be just as stupid, regardless of whether their team plays with Anorthosis or Galatasaray.

O.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:57 pm

An letter written to Cyprus Mail posted today by Petros Kyrillou,
Nicosia


I’m puzzled by Chris Christofi’s letter (“A tired refrain”, Letters to the Editor, Sunday Mail, July 31) in which he chides Turkish Cypriots who voted ‘yes’ to the Annan Plan for having “voted for division” and adds that he himself voted ‘no’ in order to achieve unification. The Annan Plan isn’t perfect, but it seems fairly clear that a vote for the Plan was (and is) a vote for a single unified Cyprus. Equally, rejecting the Plan would lead – as indeed it has led – to the two parts of Cyprus going their separate ways. Every day that passes makes this clearer, and makes unification less likely. We can argue about the fairness or justice of a unified Cyprus under the Plan, but please let’s not enter a surreal world where white is black and black is white.

A related point: did Mr Christofi see the Anorthosis game against Trabzonspor a couple of weeks ago, where there wasn’t a single Cypriot flag in the stands, only Greek flags?

The theory that we only have to get rid of the Turks and then ‘we Cypriots’ will be able to work things out among ourselves is looking more absurd and misguided every day.


A lot of truth in what Mr Kyrillou is saying please read and absorb as many GCs still ignore reality, which isthe momentum of recognized partition over time...
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Postby ChomskyFan » Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:34 pm

Nationalism in Turkey and the pseudostate is FAR more of a problem than it is in Greece or Cyprus, Chrysi Avgi are regarded as something of a joke in Greece, their best polling was around 3.4%, Nationalism in Turkey however, that's very real, and very dangerous, as the 1.5 Millions Armenians who lie dead would testify if they could.
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Postby gabaston » Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:35 pm

chomsky

this is a thread about a football match, do you have to poison even this with your propaganda?

by the way well done chelsea for spanking the arse-anal today
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Postby petethegreek » Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:00 pm

gabaston wrote:chomsky

this is a thread about a football match, do you have to poison even this with your propaganda?

by the way well done chelsea for spanking the arse-anal today


We will have none of this spanking of arse or anal thank you. This is not a porn site!
:lol:
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