Cyprus-Forum.com

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Israel, Greece sign first treaty in almost 60 years

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/ ... t-60-years

Oct 18, 2010, 16:15 GMT

Jerusalem - Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and his visiting Greek counterpart, Dimitris Droutsas, signed an aviation treaty Monday, amid signs of strengthening ties between the two countries.

The aviation treaty was the first to be signed between the two nations since 1952, a Foreign Ministry statement said.

The deal will pave the way for, among other things, two carriers to service each side for each destination - instead of just one.

The agreement, Droutsas told reporters in Jerusalem, was further proof of how the rapprochement between the two countries is being translated into practical terms.

Israeli and Greek media have been noting a marked increase in cooperation between the two countries, after a long period of cooler ties marked by fierce Greek criticism of Israel's policies.

Prime Minister George Papandreou is moving closer to Israel - in addition to Cyprus - partly because Israel is moving away from its past strong ally Turkey, one commentator said.

The crisis in Israeli-Turkish relations peaked when Israeli commandos forcibly seized an aid ship attempting to breach the Israeli naval blockade on the Gaza Strip in May and shot dead nine Turkish pro-Palestinian activists.

Israeli-Greek cooperation has reportedly increased in several fields, including the military and tourism.

Droutsas told Israel's biggest-selling Yediot Ahronot daily that the number of Israeli tourists - many of whom now shun popular Turkish tourist destinations such as Antalya - who visited Greece in 2010 had already reached 250,000 in October, compared to 155,000 in all of 2009.

'Relations between our two countries have never been better,' Droutsas said.

Asked whether Turkey should be concerned about the improved ties, he replied: 'Our cooperation is not directed against any country. To the contrary. One of the main parameters of our cooperation is to strengthen security and stability for the entire region. For Greece, the Middle East is a vital interest.'

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http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribun ... _10_18.asp


Israel, Greece conclude major combat exercise
TEL AVIV — Israel has provided details of a combat air exercise with Greece.

The Israeli military said its Air Force concluded a major exercise with Greece in mid-October 2010. The military said the exercise in Greece was meant to enhance skills in helicopter flights around mountains.

"This training included flight and landing in mountainous terrain and under changing weather conditions," the Israeli military said.

[On Oct. 18, Greece and Israel were scheduled to sign an agreement on civil aviation. Officials said the accord would replace the previous aviation agreement signed in 1952 and augment flights between the two countries.]

The military statement, released on Oct. 14, reported the platforms employed in the combined training by the Israeli and Hellenic air forces. Israel contributed its UH-60 Black Hawk as well as the AH-64 Apache helicopters.

"The aircraft trained alongside Hellenic Air Force helicopters — Apache AH-64 and AS332 Super Puma — and combat jets," the military said.

A similar exercise was said to have taken place in Romania in the summer of 2010. At the time, an Israel Air Force C-53 heavy-lift helicopter crashed in the mountains of Romania.

The military said senior Israeli Air Force officers attended the exercise on Oct. 13. The statement cited the head of the helicopter air division and the commanders of the Air Force bases at Hatzerim and Ramon.

"The head of the Helicopter Air Division and the commanders of Ramon and Hatzerim IAF bases visited the training squadrons Oct. 13, and participated in both the training and the joint conclusion of the exercise, which included chief representatives from the Hellenic Air Force," the military said

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Global Insider: Israel-Greece Relations
Matt Peterson | Bio | 01 Nov 2010

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/tren ... -relations

Israel is increasingly turning to Greece to compensate for the decline in its relationship with Turkey. Israel recently held air force exercises in Greek air space, and the two countries have signed a civilian aviation agreement. In an e-mail interview, Efraim Inbar, professor of political studies at Bar-Ilan University and director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies, explains the growing relationship between Israel and Greece.

WPR: What is the historical military and political relationship between Israel and Greece?

Efraim Inbar: Politico-military cooperation between Greece and Israel is a new phenomenon. Greece has been one of the least-friendly states in the European Union toward Israel because of its traditional good relations with the Arab world and its desire to elicit support on the Cyprus issue. Leftist tendencies and latent anti-Americanism in Greece's domestic politics, as well as church interests in the Holy Land, did not facilitate good relations. Full diplomatic relations were only established in 1990, and the strategic partnership between Israel and Turkey in the 1990s prevented closer bilateral relations from developing.

WPR: What is driving their growing military ties?

Efraim Inbar: Israel is generally interested in greater cooperation with states in the Eastern Mediterranean, its hinterland. As relations with Turkey soured as a result of Ankara's shifting foreign policy orientation, Israel tried to improve relations with Greece and Cyprus. Israel needs flying space, as its territory is too small for its air force to conduct effective training exercises. Moreover, its navy has begun to develop capabilities to project power and needs a testing ground further away from Israel's coastline. Meanwhile, Greece fears Turkey's changing foreign policy orientation more than any other European country. Turkey's growing role in its former Ottoman provinces -- now independent states -- in the Balkans has also brought Athens and Jerusalem together. Moreover, Greece shares Israeli fears of Iran's growing ability to project power from Lebanon into the Balkans and Europe.

WPR: Is the new aviation agreement a precursor of broader political and military cooperation?

Efraim Inbar: This is certainly a possibility. Israel can be useful to Greece by providing weapons and military technology in exchange for training areas, while Greece can also provide improved Israeli access to the EU. Cooperation in monitoring terrorists and illegal activities in the Eastern Mediterranean is another common strategic interest. Nevertheless, Greece's ability to play a significant role as a partner for Israel is limited. It is a small state and is constrained by its EU membership and domestic anti-Israeli forces.

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Greece raising concern about Turkey with US

Associated Press
2010-11-05 12:11 AM

http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_c ... g=eng_news

Greece is raising concern with the United States about Turkey's growing assertiveness.

In discussions with U.S. defense officials Thursday, Deputy Defense Minister Panos Beglitis planned to highlight incidents of what Greece sees as violations of its airspace and territorial waters by Turkish forces. In an interview, Beglitis stressed that his government is looking to deepen cooperation with Turkey. But it is concerned about Turkey's rising power. He said: "I wonder if my American friends understand the situation."

Beglitis said his country is also working to deepen ties with Israel. In Washington, he was also meeting with members of the American Jewish Committee.

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Greece complained to American friends about Turkey’s growth of armaments



Greece expressed its concern to U.S. regarding increase of Turkey’s military potential.

In the course of the talks with Pentagon top officials, Greek Deputy Defense Minister Panos Beglitis stressed that the government is looking forward to cooperation with Turkey but is concerned over rising power of its eastern neighbor. In an interview with the Associated Press, Beglitis said he doubts whether American friends realize Greece’s concern. He also stated that the country is working on strengthening ties with Israel.

http://news.am/eng/news/37142.html

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A new era of Greco-Cypriot relations with Israel

By Andrestinos N. Papadopoulos Published on November 7, 2010

Does the Athens-Nicosia-Tel Aviv triangle exist? The question arises because of the deterioration in relations between Turkey and Israel and the push given by Israel to strengthen its relations with Greece and Cyprus, as witnessed by the recent visits of Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to Athens in August and his Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman to Nicosia in September.

It is well known that Turkish-Israeli relations are in deep crisis, as a result of the neo-Ottoman theory implemented by Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davoutoglu who seeks to align Turkey with the Arab world. Turkey strongly condemned the Israeli bombardment of Gaza, received the Hamas leader in Ankara, conducted common military exercises with Syria, arch-enemy of Israel, while refusing to do the same with Israel in accordance with their Treaty of Military Co-operation of 1996, supported Iran, criticised for its nuclear ambitions, and lastly tried to break the Israeli embargo on Gaza. The purpose of all these actions is to project Turkey as the big Islamic power, capable of creating problems for Israel, more effectively than Iran. In all this, Turkey asserts that she is not counting the political cost or alliances.

In attempting to deal with this situation, it was only natural Israel should turn towards Greece and Cyprus with which it entertains excellent relations.

The two countries took advantage of this opportunity. Netanyahu’s visit to Athens, a month after Papandreou’s visit to Jerusalem, is the first official visit by an Israeli prime minister to Greece and expresses the mutual will to bolster ties between the two countries. The visit afforded the opportunity to exchange views on a variety of issues of bilateral co-operation. The discussion, inter alia, covered military co-operation, security, armaments, economy, tourism, energy, know-how, joint ventures, etc. One concrete result was the decision to establish a Joint Committee to identify sectors presenting real prospects of rapid development and intensive co-operation.

Netanyahu’s visit upgraded Greece’s role in the Middle East, where peace is of vital importance. In this respect, Greece’s traditional friendship with the Arab world can be of help, as it enjoys the trust of both parties. Papandreou put particular emphasis on this point by saying that Greece wants to be useful to Israeli-Palestinian rapprochement, as well as that of the Arab world with Europe.

In view of the above, a reasonable question was put by journalists to the two prime ministers: whether the relations of strategic importance between Greece and Israel are competing with those with Turkey. The answer of both was “no”, but the Greek prime minister stressed that Turkey has to show respect to the peoples and the countries of the region.

Lieberman visited Cyprus at the invitation of his Cypriot counterpart when Netanyahu was in Washington for the direct talks with the Palestinian leader. Lieberman and Kyprianou have met several times this year in an effort to strengthen relations between their countries. Their discussions covered a variety of issues among which the most prominent was the joint Greco-Cypriot proposal for transporting humanitarian aid to Gaza. The reasoning behind this is Cyprus’ proximity to the region and its excellent relations with the parties concerned. Lieberman described the proposal as very positive, adding that it is on the discussion table. In this respect the possibility is being explored to put the project under the EU umbrella, with a view to giving more substance to its role in the region.

Israel’s relations with the EU was another issue discussed. For Israel, Cyprus represents the closest opening to the EU, and co-operation in all these areas helps Israel’s European relations. In this respect, it should be mentioned that now, as compared to the past, Israel is willing to enter into dialogue with Cyprus over the delimitation of the boundaries of the Exclusive Economic Zone between the two countries. Moreover, after the deterioration of its relations with Turkey, Israel believes that Cyprus - together with Greece, Bulgaria and Romania - could become the bridge to Brussels. This fits Cyprus’ own ambition to become the bridge between the EU and the Middle East. Mention should be made that in the EU, Israel has a strong ally, France. President Sarkozy, speaking in the Knesset in June 2008, confirmed that Israel can count on Europe for help in finding a final solution to the problem of the Middle East and that France is also committed to this goal. However, Israel is not limiting its interest solely to the EU versus Davoutoglu debate. Lieberman has his own agenda, according to which Israel should become a dominating power in the Mediterranean, a member of the EU and NATO with influence in Africa and a special relation with all those Balkan countries despising Turkey’s neo-Ottoman model.

The need to deal with the Turkey’s neo-Ottoman ambitions of Turkey in the Middle East, which consequently led to the deterioration of the relations between Turkey and Israel, has prompted Israel to seek new ways of securing stability in the region. In order to achieve this, Israel has decided to strengthen its relations with Cyprus and Greece, taking also into account the curtailed powers of the Turkish army - the champion of the alliance with Israel – following President Erdogan’s in September’s referendum.

Dr Andrestinos N, Papadopoulos is a former ambassador of the Republic of Cyprus

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... and end of the story; you will never learn a lesson or two from the history...

Edward Billiotti (1881) mentions some of the Jewish occupations on Rhodes : textile merchants, travelling salesman, and porters. According to Billiotti the Jews of Rhodes tend to have little contact with either Christians or Turks, and are lagging behind in education.

Papachristodhoulou also comments on the evnts of 1821 (the beginning of the Greek War of Independence). Because the Greeks were numerically superior the villages of Rhodes, and the Turks were mainly confined to the City, it is Papachristodhoulou's convention that Jews doing their shopping in the villages formed a sort of spy service, informing the Turks of what they had learnt while in the villages. He goes on to say that Jews played an important part in the island's history, but their loyalty was suspect. They exploited the hatred between Greeks and Turks to benefit themselves at the expense of the Greeks. A rise in Jewish trade occurred after the fire of 1876, and this trade developed gretaly in the first years of Italian rule. As if this was not enough, Papachristodhoulou gives his impressions of the first months of Italian occupation : "The Jews of Rhodes, since they had worked with the Turks in the fire of 1876 and had always flattered them, collaborated with them in the elections established after the Constitution of 1908 and made efforts to prevent Greek MPs being elected".

http://www.sefarad.org/publication/lm/011/michael.html

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Some hints as to why the Greek state did not have full diplomatic ties with the Jewish state:

1. In 1917 a huge fire raged in Salonica. It started on a Saturday when the Jewish shops were shut. The wind conveninently blew from the north. It is called Vardaris in northern Greece. The number of homeless reached 80 000. Half of them were Jews. The rest, Armenians and Ottomans. There were only very few Greeks.

You say Salonica had very few Greeks. How do you explain this New York Times article published in 1897 that states "Greeks predominating in the south about Salonica"? Could it possibly be that you are wrong?

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... 94669ED7CF

2. After 25 years, in 1942, the Greeks gave to the Germans the remaining Jews on a plate. The church played a key role, for the Jews committed the worst sin, they killed Jesus! On July 11 1942, freedom Square in Salonica was bursting at the seams, with 50 000 Greek Jews stigmatised with the yellow star od David.

You say "Jews on a plate" yet there are countless stories like this Jerusalem post below. Could it possibly be that you are wrong?

http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/Article.aspx?id=162994

3. On October 11 1821, the rebellious Greeks of Kolokotronis, entered Tripolitsa. For 2 days people were slaughtered like lambs and if you think that only the Turks were put down, you are wrong. The Jewish population of Tripolitsa was also decimated. These atrocities led to a number of foreign fighters that were fighting with the rebellious Greeks against the Ottomans to leave Greece in disgust.

Those rebellious Greeks in 1821, what were they thinking? Surely it would have been better if the Greeks remained under the Ottoman yolk.
BTW After all these articles mentioning Western fears of nationalist Turkey looking east you still say in this forum that the RoC is going to need help come December when the UN apportions blame. Who is going to blame the RoC...is it the United States? Is it France? The SG of the UN? Believe me when i say that you haven't a clue. Let us see, you were wrong about the Talat elections, you are wrong about your drivel above, you will be wrong come December and i will be here to remind you of it. Could it possibly be that you are ALWAYS wrong?

Could it possibly be that you, Bananiot, are ALWAYS wrong?

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How was I wrong about the Talat elections?

Where to begin. First you stated that Talat would not run for the TC leadership last year if no peace agreement was reached. You blathered on about why the RoC doesn't have noble leaders like Mr. Talat. Then when Talat did run, you blathered on how the TCs would not make the same mistake the GCs did with TPAP. These are conversations you had with me. I am sure you have been wrong many times with other contributors of this forum as well....but who is counting

Could it possibly be that you, Bananiot, are always wrong?

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In a further bid to strengthen its footing in the area and with limited Israeli airspace posing severe constraints on training, the IAF has conducted at least four large-scale maneuvers with the Greek Air Force last year, according to Greek media reports over the weekend.

Some of the training, held in Greek airspace, reportedly included attempts by IAF pilots to counter S300 batteries, an advanced Russian-made anti-missile system.

Following the successful culmination of the drills, Israel and Greece are now planning to hold joint naval exercises, which may be launched early next year, Israeli Hebrew-language Yediot Aharonot reported on Sunday.

Besides the maneuvers, both countries are holding advanced negotiations on an arms procurement. Greece plans to equip its F- 16 fighter aircraft with Israeli-made radar capable to gathering intelligence in adverse weather conditions and at night, in a deal worth 100 to 150 million U.S. dollars, the report said.

"It is a new era in the relationship (between the countries)," Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou was quoted as saying.

http://english.cri.cn/6966/2010/11/29/2741s607525.htm