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TRNC next?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Oracle » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:00 pm

insan wrote:
Kyprianou noted that the Cyprus problem would be indirectly promoted, mainly the aspect of the destruction of the island's cultural heritage, while tourism and Cyprus' strategic importance for the USA will be highlighted.


Look who's continually inviting the Yanks to Cyprus by highlighting the "strategic importance" of Cyprus... :lol:

Minister of Foreign Affairs foreign affairs Marcos Kyprianou said his Ministry would be intensifying its actions in 2010 to prepare for the EU presidency in 2012.

Presenting his Ministry's budget before the House of Representatives' Committee of Finance, Kyprianou said the most important activities of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs have to do with ''the promotion of our positions for the solution of the Cyprus problem.''
of which 78.4 million is regular expenditure, compared to 75 million in 2009, and 5.3 million development expenditure, which was around the same amount in 2009.


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Cyprus+Fo ... 0211777770

Good luck! Hope "you" don't bring just another disaster to Cyprus in the year 2011 or 2012...



Any and ALL disasters came with the "TCs" ... nothing else!

Turkey doesn't want you, either! :wink:
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Postby Nikitas » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:06 pm

"maintain it's regional leadership..."

You cannot impose leadership, you demonstrate leadership qualities and others follow. Power alone does not confer leadership, as the case of Israel amply demonstrates. No matter how powerful it is, in the region it is anything but a leader because it has nothing to contribute to its neihgbors other than the promise not to beat them up. Turkey is not much different.

Ask Arabs, the people who populate the so called "area of influence" what associations they have when they hear the words Yunan and Turk.
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Postby insan » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:27 pm

Oracle wrote:
insan wrote:
Oracle wrote:
insan wrote:
Oracle wrote:
insan wrote:
Nikitas wrote:"the strategically important island Cyprus"

The number one false premise in this problem. Since the invention of sattelites, remotely piloted planes, air carrier groups and cruise missiles, no island is strategic anymore.


Those invented things still need an "allied" airspace and naval road to move towards their targets...

Don't forget that besides those things you mentioned, the anti-this and that and detection systems were also invented and installed every possible to be installed places all over the world...

Nikitas, your as your brain cells getting older;you are losing your ability to rationally analyze the issues ... :wink:


And you are openly admitting the pretext for the Invasion of Cyprus ... The (now) dispensable "TCs" have served their purpose for Turkey.


Had "you" accepted the "political equality" of TC community within the frame of consociational democracy and exert to reconcile with TCs and Turks; there would have been no need for Turkey's intervention thus would have been no divided Cyprus, displaced persons etc...

What TCs and Turkey asked for was that damn "political equality" in frame of consociational democracy... just to secure the rights of TCs and satisfy Turkey's national, territorial security concerns...

... but it seems it's too difficult for Hellenes to overcome the fear called Turco-Phobia...


Then, you are contradicting yourself.

You said: "the strategically important island Cyprus". Implying that whether TCs exist on Cyprus, or are "equal" or not, is an irrelevancy if Turkey has decided Cyprus is "strategically important". That is what matters and not this "minority", equal or not, community. You were merely the excuse for the Invasion of "the strategically important island Cyprus" ... and you admitted this further above :wink:


The strategic importance of Cyprus is a fact... but Cyprus is not the only strategically important place in the world... besides, the strategic importance of Cyprus vary from one country to another...

Turkey was comfortable about Cyprus when it was under the rule of an ally, friendly and one of the leading nation of western world, Brits... In fact it was the Brits and most of the other allies who supported giving the leading role to Turkey instead of then the crazy Greek ruling elite in our region...

A politically equal TC community would provide Turkey the substantial part of the required political power to maintain it's regional leadership... Had we managed to reconcile and respect each other's rights; we would all have been benefited from this situation... :wink:


How would such an "arrangement" where 15% of the Cypriot population answered to the commands of a Turkey who thus (under "political equality") controlled half of Cyprus, have been any different to what Turkey has manoeuvred today?

You are proving that Turkey has desired at least half of Cyprus since it reneged its hold of "the strategically important island Cyprus" to the Brits!

What is outwardly apparent to all, except you, is how superfluous the TCs are to Turkey! :wink:


First of all, when you are allied with a political group or some political groups there's no need for a chain of command but unity of command with all political groups that are all in the same family of alliance... It also has nothing to do with population percentages because the ordinary people of different ethnic backgrounds are not directly related with this "alliance stuff"... Thus, the conflict would have been only among the left and right winged political groups and their active supporters

For what purpose would Turkey want half of Cyprus? 1/3 is enough which is believed should belong to TCs because the average population ratio of TCs compared to GCs was 1/3 of total population until the begining of the British Rule...

As for your claim that TCs are superflous to Turkey; what gave you that impression? The political arguements of tiny TC far left? Emigrating TCs? "Settlers" which still together with them the citizens of TRNC totals 1/3 of total population of Cyprus? The Turkish nationalist TCs who emigrated from Cyprus?

I will contribute to broaden your mind.... :wink:

10 ways to broaden your mind
We are all conditioned by our upbringing and our environment. To get on in the world, you need to challenge some of the prejudices and views you grew up with, replacing them with more worldly views. In fact the older you are, the harder you might need to work on this.
Here are ten ways to broaden your mind:
1. Learning – Education is not just for the young. Evening classes, online training and flexible college programmes means that everyone has the chance to learn. Never stop learning.
2. Travel – Visit other places and see how people live. You don’t always need to go far to do this. There will be people living with both extreme wealth and grinding poverty within 10 miles of your front door.
3. Take risks – To really challenge your perceptions might involve meeting people or visiting places that make you feel uncomfortable. Risk ridicule and rejection and do it anyway. Others may learn from your discomfort.
4. Take the bus – If you normally travel by car, try using public transport for a week. See how difficult it is. Talk to other passengers.
5. Do an exchange – Some employers allow their people to swap jobs with distant colleagues from time to time. (If yours doesn’t, suggest it). This lets you live and work in a different cultural environment.
6. Open your door – Offer your spare room to people visiting your town on any organised event. Perhaps a town twinning. Try to return to their homes to see how they live.
7. Volunteer – If you’re a chef, spend an evening at a soup kitchen for the homeless. You’re probably not a chef, but find your own similar example.
8. Go on retreat – We rarely spend time on our own. Retreats are opportunities to spend time with yourself, free of distractions. Get to know yourself better, it’s surprisingly revealing.
9. Act – Role play, perhaps on stage, enables you to get under your character’s skin. See how it feels to be somebody else.
10. Hear – Whatever else you do, remain receptive and hear what’s said.
Retreats
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Postby insan » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:38 pm

Nikitas wrote:"maintain it's regional leadership..."

You cannot impose leadership, you demonstrate leadership qualities and others follow. Power alone does not confer leadership, as the case of Israel amply demonstrates. No matter how powerful it is, in the region it is anything but a leader because it has nothing to contribute to its neihgbors other than the promise not to beat them up. Turkey is not much different.

Ask Arabs, the people who populate the so called "area of influence" what associations they have when they hear the words Yunan and Turk.


I agree with you... Turkey and TCs need more sapiential leaders, politicians and intelligentia in order to be duly admitted as the leader of the region...
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Postby Oracle » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:06 pm

insan wrote:
Oracle wrote:
insan wrote:
Oracle wrote:
insan wrote:
Oracle wrote:
insan wrote:
Nikitas wrote:"the strategically important island Cyprus"

The number one false premise in this problem. Since the invention of sattelites, remotely piloted planes, air carrier groups and cruise missiles, no island is strategic anymore.


Those invented things still need an "allied" airspace and naval road to move towards their targets...

Don't forget that besides those things you mentioned, the anti-this and that and detection systems were also invented and installed every possible to be installed places all over the world...

Nikitas, your as your brain cells getting older;you are losing your ability to rationally analyze the issues ... :wink:


And you are openly admitting the pretext for the Invasion of Cyprus ... The (now) dispensable "TCs" have served their purpose for Turkey.


Had "you" accepted the "political equality" of TC community within the frame of consociational democracy and exert to reconcile with TCs and Turks; there would have been no need for Turkey's intervention thus would have been no divided Cyprus, displaced persons etc...

What TCs and Turkey asked for was that damn "political equality" in frame of consociational democracy... just to secure the rights of TCs and satisfy Turkey's national, territorial security concerns...

... but it seems it's too difficult for Hellenes to overcome the fear called Turco-Phobia...


Then, you are contradicting yourself.

You said: "the strategically important island Cyprus". Implying that whether TCs exist on Cyprus, or are "equal" or not, is an irrelevancy if Turkey has decided Cyprus is "strategically important". That is what matters and not this "minority", equal or not, community. You were merely the excuse for the Invasion of "the strategically important island Cyprus" ... and you admitted this further above :wink:


The strategic importance of Cyprus is a fact... but Cyprus is not the only strategically important place in the world... besides, the strategic importance of Cyprus vary from one country to another...

Turkey was comfortable about Cyprus when it was under the rule of an ally, friendly and one of the leading nation of western world, Brits... In fact it was the Brits and most of the other allies who supported giving the leading role to Turkey instead of then the crazy Greek ruling elite in our region...

A politically equal TC community would provide Turkey the substantial part of the required political power to maintain it's regional leadership... Had we managed to reconcile and respect each other's rights; we would all have been benefited from this situation... :wink:


How would such an "arrangement" where 15% of the Cypriot population answered to the commands of a Turkey who thus (under "political equality") controlled half of Cyprus, have been any different to what Turkey has manoeuvred today?

You are proving that Turkey has desired at least half of Cyprus since it reneged its hold of "the strategically important island Cyprus" to the Brits!

What is outwardly apparent to all, except you, is how superfluous the TCs are to Turkey! :wink:


First of all, when you are allied with a political group or some political groups there's no need for a chain of command but unity of command with all political groups that are all in the same family of alliance... It also has nothing to do with population percentages because the ordinary people of different ethnic backgrounds are not directly related with this "alliance stuff"... Thus, the conflict would have been only among the left and right winged political groups and their active supporters

For what purpose would Turkey want half of Cyprus? 1/3 is enough which is believed should belong to TCs because the average population ratio of TCs compared to GCs was 1/3 of total population until the begining of the British Rule...

As for your claim that TCs are superflous to Turkey; what gave you that impression? The political arguements of tiny TC far left? Emigrating TCs? "Settlers" which still together with them the citizens of TRNC totals 1/3 of total population of Cyprus? The Turkish nationalist TCs who emigrated from Cyprus?

I will contribute to broaden your mind.... :wink:

10 ways to broaden your mind
We are all conditioned by our upbringing and our environment. To get on in the world, you need to challenge some of the prejudices and views you grew up with, replacing them with more worldly views. In fact the older you are, the harder you might need to work on this.
Here are ten ways to broaden your mind:
1. Learning – Education is not just for the young. Evening classes, online training and flexible college programmes means that everyone has the chance to learn. Never stop learning.
2. Travel – Visit other places and see how people live. You don’t always need to go far to do this. There will be people living with both extreme wealth and grinding poverty within 10 miles of your front door.
3. Take risks – To really challenge your perceptions might involve meeting people or visiting places that make you feel uncomfortable. Risk ridicule and rejection and do it anyway. Others may learn from your discomfort.
4. Take the bus – If you normally travel by car, try using public transport for a week. See how difficult it is. Talk to other passengers.
5. Do an exchange – Some employers allow their people to swap jobs with distant colleagues from time to time. (If yours doesn’t, suggest it). This lets you live and work in a different cultural environment.
6. Open your door – Offer your spare room to people visiting your town on any organised event. Perhaps a town twinning. Try to return to their homes to see how they live.
7. Volunteer – If you’re a chef, spend an evening at a soup kitchen for the homeless. You’re probably not a chef, but find your own similar example.
8. Go on retreat – We rarely spend time on our own. Retreats are opportunities to spend time with yourself, free of distractions. Get to know yourself better, it’s surprisingly revealing.
9. Act – Role play, perhaps on stage, enables you to get under your character’s skin. See how it feels to be somebody else.
10. Hear – Whatever else you do, remain receptive and hear what’s said.
Retreats


Insan ... it's all inside your head! :wink:

Life, the universe and everything point to the fact the TCs are superfluous to Turkey ... and you can whine and theorise all you like!

The reality is proving you WRONG!
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