Cyprus-Forum.com

[Acikgoz]

Thirdly, and possibly most significantly, there was no overarching loyalty which united the two communities, nor was there the concept of a common, inclusive Cypriot identity. Indeed, “[t]he Cypriots were not a single people with differing tendencies but, rather, two different peoples...Greeks and Turks on Cyprus thought of themselves as Greeks and Turks, not as Cypriots”.

2003 was the closest the Cypriots came to a Cypriot identity on the TC side. This important point of fostering Cypriotness rather than reinforcing the differentiation was destroyed by Papadopulou. What did we expect from a key participant of the Akritas plan? He burned bridges in his final role as president which will likely never be able to be rebuilt as Cyprus moves forward with the two peoples following more and more divergent paths.
When I talk of building trust and common purpose it is this "overarching loyalty" to which I am refering.

[insan]

In my opinion; their cultural idendity should be respected and depending on their population ratio within the major ethnic group(s) and the regions mainly inhabited by those minorities should be granted local autonomy or a consociational democratic system in order to allow them effectively participate in state affairs... Only a culturally sapiential people of a country could really achieve this... if of course there aren't many external factors/powers continually destablizing the system and people in direction of their national, regional and global interests...

THE 1960 CONSTITUTION: AN ATTEMPT AT CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY

[b]In short, the conditions prevailing in Cyprus at the time of the implementation of the constitution did not favor success."[/b]
[/i]

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ippr/downl

Thx Kikapu for proving my point...

[Nikitas]

Acikgoz,

Did you read Papadopoulos speech in translation? Did you understand the main points? do you identify them as the obsessions of the GC community?

We are often told of the hardship and humilation of the decade of the enclaves for TCs. It is understandable that a TC obsession has to do with never repeating that experience. Equally understandable is the GC determination never to relive 1974. The rush to have a plebiscite did not allow for a few minor corrections which would have eased the GC obsessions. But Turkey pushed and got a plan which it knew the GCs would reject.

Why is so hard to understand that giving up the RoC is a no deal? Or that the interim period for territorial adjustments was too long, and during that time the UN and not Turkey should be the administrator of the territories? If TCs do not trust GCs because of the enclaves, why should GCs trust Turkey after August 1974 and the ensuing 36 years?

The changes proposed by the RoC were painless, and did not change the substance of the plan.

On a personal note, I would have opposed the plan even with the changes because the territorial arrangement stank. Something Papadopoulos did not say and which did not concern him.

[Acikgoz]

Given I can't read greek then yes in translation. I did understand the main points, a fundamental one was his belief in the elevation of the RoC legal status through entry into the EU. Do you want me to give you that part?

Will you acknowledge his evil then or will you just switch to another point without resolving this one?

It is as though you are talking to the wind, your kung fu master would be proud.

[Paphitis]

The corrupt and immoral Copperline is salivating at the destruction of Serbia and theft of her territory that now forms this “Kosovo” ambiguity.

I’ll remind the fool that in 1999 the US attack of Serbia (which ultimately led to everything else) was a war crime in its own right of which I doubt the ICJ bothered to take into consideration!

That’s the problem when international law & order breaks down because we allow the main corrupt protagonists like the US, UK, and Israel, to conduct crimes against humanity around the world thus making it impossible for justice to prevail!

A law abiding court would’ve never approved of an illegal invasion such as that of the US against Serbia, contrary to the UN Charter! If anything, this decision by the ICJ proves that corruption, chaos and anarchy reign supreme and that the Cyprus Problem can only be solved militarily.

The correct procedure is for ethnic minorities to either assimilate or be repatriated to their country of origin, as nobody is interested in having rebellious foreigners roaming around!

Not so ambiguous here:



Looks like it is the serbs who are in actual fact, 'the minority' in Kossovo!

Silly Paphitis! By the same token the "TRNC" is probably 95% comprised of people of Turkish/Turkic origin but does that make it a valid contender for independence? Of course not because of the 1974 ethnic cleansing!

Stop jumping up and down like a rabbit on heat! This is a pathetic attempt to make me feel guilty by offering a comparison which is close to home.

As stated by Kifeas earlier:

http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/141/15987.pdf

Not only it does not leave room for a similar treatment in the case of the "TRNC," but it buries even deeper such a possibility, neither for a future recognition nor for the legality of such a "UDI" by Turkey /Turkish Cypriots on the soil of northern Cyprus.

Paragraphs 81 and 114 of the ruling are of particular relevance, and they read as follows:

Par. 81
"Several participants have invoked resolutions of the Security Council condemning particular declarations of independence: see, inter alia, Security Council resolutions 216 (1965) and 217 (1965), concerning Southern Rhodesia; Security Council resolution 541 (1983), concerning northern Cyprus; and Security Council resolution 787 (1992), concerning the Republika Srpska.
The Court notes, however, that in all of those instances the Security Council was making a determination as regards the concrete situation existing at the time that those declarations of independence were made; the illegality attached to the declarations of independence thus stemmed not from the unilateral character of these declarations as such, but from the fact that they were, or would have been, connected with the unlawful use of force or other egregious violations of norms of general international law, in particular those of a peremptory character (jus cogens). In the context of Kosovo, the Security Council has never taken this position. The exceptional character of the resolutions enumerated above appears to the Court to confirm that no general prohibition against unilateral declarations of independence may be inferred from the practice of the Security Council."

Par. 114
"First, the Court observes that Security Council resolution 1244 (1999) was essentially designed to create an interim régime for Kosovo, with a view to channelling the long-term political process to establish its final status. The resolution did not contain any provision dealing with the final status of Kosovo or with the conditions for its achievement.
In this regard the Court notes that contemporaneous practice of the Security Council shows that in situations where the Security Council has decided to establish restrictive conditions for the permanent status of a territory, those conditions are specified in the relevant resolution. For example, although the factual circumstances differed from the situation in Kosovo, only 19 days after the adoption of resolution 1244 (1999), the Security Council, in its resolution 1251 of 29 June 1999, reaffirmed its position that a “Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded” (para. 11). The Security Council thus set out the specific conditions relating to the permanent status of Cyprus.
By contrast, under the terms of resolution 1244 (1999) the Security Council did not reserve for itself the final determination of the situation in Kosovo and remained silent on the conditions for the final status of Kosovo.
Resolution 1244 (1999) thus does not preclude the issuance of the declaration of independence of 17 February 2008 because the two instruments operate on a different level: unlike resolution 1244 (1999), the declaration of independence is an attempt to determine finally the status of Kosovo."

And what have you done here? You have presented a map of a portion of Serbia and very recently called “Kosovo”, AFTER all the ethnic cleansings, NATO bombings, population exchanges, and God knows what else took place there from the 90s to this day!

Twit!

Over and over again, Bananiot has been running rings around you because you have chosen to ignore the Srebrenica massacre and Genocide as well as the attempts to ethnically cleanse Albanian Kossovars.

As Bananiot said, you are not fit to even mention Human Rights again you fucked up cockroach of a humanitarian. It seems that War Crimes ONLY apply to the US and NEVER apply to those who are fighting against US 'imperialism'.

Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot, than to open your silly gob and remove all doubt!

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europ ... 51454.html

I'm sure you will agree that the Al Jazeera link is reputable in your sick mind.

What a fuckwit!

[Kikapu]

In my opinion; their cultural idendity should be respected and depending on their population ratio within the major ethnic group(s) and the regions mainly inhabited by those minorities should be granted local autonomy or a consociational democratic system in order to allow them effectively participate in state affairs... Only a culturally sapiential people of a country could really achieve this... if of course there aren't many external factors/powers continually destablizing the system and people in direction of their national, regional and global interests...

THE 1960 CONSTITUTION: AN ATTEMPT AT CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY

[b]In short, the conditions prevailing in Cyprus at the time of the implementation of the constitution did not favor success."[/b]
[/i]

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ippr/downl

Thx Kikapu for proving my point...

Actually, the point was to show you again why your so called "CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY" does not work and did not work in Cyprus, as you may remember, that Piratis and I "beat you up" pretty badly here on the forum one night couple of years ago on the subject, since even the basic principles of CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY were not in the 1960m Constitution.

DT thought Piratis and I would be arrested for "attempted murder" against you at that time.!

[insan]

In my opinion; their cultural idendity should be respected and depending on their population ratio within the major ethnic group(s) and the regions mainly inhabited by those minorities should be granted local autonomy or a consociational democratic system in order to allow them effectively participate in state affairs... Only a culturally sapiential people of a country could really achieve this... if of course there aren't many external factors/powers continually destablizing the system and people in direction of their national, regional and global interests...

THE 1960 CONSTITUTION: AN ATTEMPT AT CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY

[b]In short, the conditions prevailing in Cyprus at the time of the implementation of the constitution did not favor success."[/b]
[/i]

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ippr/downl

Thx Kikapu for proving my point...

Actually, the point was to show you again why your so called "CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY" does not work and did not work in Cyprus, as you may remember, that Piratis and I "beat you up" pretty badly here on the forum one night couple of years ago on the subject, since even the basic principles of CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY were not in the 1960m Constitution.

DT thought Piratis and I would be arrested for "attempted murder" against you at that time.!

THE 1960 CONSTITUTION: AN ATTEMPT AT CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY

In short, the conditions prevailing in Cyprus at the time of the implementation of the constitution did not favor success.

What didn't favor the success of consociationalism? The conditions prevailing in Cyprus... not your nonsense

[Kikapu]

In my opinion; their cultural idendity should be respected and depending on their population ratio within the major ethnic group(s) and the regions mainly inhabited by those minorities should be granted local autonomy or a consociational democratic system in order to allow them effectively participate in state affairs... Only a culturally sapiential people of a country could really achieve this... if of course there aren't many external factors/powers continually destablizing the system and people in direction of their national, regional and global interests...

THE 1960 CONSTITUTION: AN ATTEMPT AT CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY

[b]In short, the conditions prevailing in Cyprus at the time of the implementation of the constitution did not favor success."[/b]
[/i]

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ippr/downl

Thx Kikapu for proving my point...

Actually, the point was to show you again why your so called "CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY" does not work and did not work in Cyprus, as you may remember, that Piratis and I "beat you up" pretty badly here on the forum one night couple of years ago on the subject, since even the basic principles of CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY were not in the 1960m Constitution.

DT thought Piratis and I would be arrested for "attempted murder" against you at that time.!

THE 1960 CONSTITUTION: AN ATTEMPT AT CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY

In short, the conditions prevailing in Cyprus at the time of the implementation of the constitution did not favor success.

What didn't favor the success of consociationalism? The conditions prevailing in Cyprus... not your nonsense

And do you think the condition are now ripe for another attempt of CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY.??

[insan]

In my opinion; their cultural idendity should be respected and depending on their population ratio within the major ethnic group(s) and the regions mainly inhabited by those minorities should be granted local autonomy or a consociational democratic system in order to allow them effectively participate in state affairs... Only a culturally sapiential people of a country could really achieve this... if of course there aren't many external factors/powers continually destablizing the system and people in direction of their national, regional and global interests...

THE 1960 CONSTITUTION: AN ATTEMPT AT CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY

[b]In short, the conditions prevailing in Cyprus at the time of the implementation of the constitution did not favor success."[/b]
[/i]

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ippr/downl

Thx Kikapu for proving my point...

Actually, the point was to show you again why your so called "CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY" does not work and did not work in Cyprus, as you may remember, that Piratis and I "beat you up" pretty badly here on the forum one night couple of years ago on the subject, since even the basic principles of CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY were not in the 1960m Constitution.

DT thought Piratis and I would be arrested for "attempted murder" against you at that time.!

THE 1960 CONSTITUTION: AN ATTEMPT AT CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY

In short, the conditions prevailing in Cyprus at the time of the implementation of the constitution did not favor success.

What didn't favor the success of consociationalism? The conditions prevailing in Cyprus... not your nonsense

And do you think the condition are now ripe for another attempt of CONSOCIATIONAL DEMOCRACY.??

Conditions are far better now... cold war is over and even the AKEL's government seeks assistance of western powers; especially the US by higlighting the startegic importance of Cyprus for US... On the other hand Greek orthodox Church is not as strong as it was then...

... and as long as the Cyprus constitution is based on consociationalism there's no problem for Turkey and TC extreme nationalists too...

In short, the current conditions highly favour the success of consociational democracy... as long as some US oriented global policies of NATO's European wing don't undermine and poison the peaceful environment in Cyprus...

I'm sure you can imagine what EU and US have in their minds regarding the natural resources of Mid East, Cacauses and the concerns of especially Russia and China with the new world order...

[Get Real!]

Over and over again, Bananiot has been running rings around you because you have chosen to ignore the Srebrenica massacre and Genocide as well as the attempts to ethnically cleanse Albanian Kossovars.

Why don't you both come and run rings around this...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 201#606201