Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

I think you’ll find that the biggest obstacle to “TRNC” independence would be Turkey herself!

[Nikitas]

The cases of Kossovo and Cyprus would have been similar if they shared a vital common link which is missing in Kossovo- invasion and occupation. No other state invaded Kossovo, the Albanian Kossovars revolted and they declared UDI.

The declaratio of the court does not diminish the rights of Serbia over its territory and more importantly it does not diminish any of the individual rights of the Serb inhabitants of Kossovo to their property.

In case of recognition, one could say that Serbs who lost their rights in Kossovo could take their cases to each domestic jurisdiction of each state that recognises Kossovo and demand compensation for their loss. In some jurisdictions they might lose, in some they will win. Recognition, being a vital element of statehood, carries responsibilities.

The Kossovars for obvious reasons have not sought to upset the property structure of Kossovo nor have they made any overt moves towards establishing a monocommunal society. They are clever enough to pay lip service to all the usual European ideals of multiculturalism and racial tolerance. What the Serbs and the Roma have to endure in Kossovo is another story.

[Murataga]

The cases of Kossovo and Cyprus would have been similar if they shared a vital common link which is missing in Kossovo- invasion and occupation. No other state invaded Kossovo, the Albanian Kossovars revolted and they declared UDI.

The declaratio of the court does not diminish the rights of Serbia over its territory and more importantly it does not diminish any of the individual rights of the Serb inhabitants of Kossovo to their property.

In case of recognition, one could say that Serbs who lost their rights in Kossovo could take their cases to each domestic jurisdiction of each state that recognises Kossovo and demand compensation for their loss. In some jurisdictions they might lose, in some they will win. Recognition, being a vital element of statehood, carries responsibilities.

The Kossovars for obvious reasons have not sought to upset the property structure of Kossovo nor have they made any overt moves towards establishing a monocommunal society. They are clever enough to pay lip service to all the usual European ideals of multiculturalism and racial tolerance. What the Serbs and the Roma have to endure in Kossovo is another story.

Please quantify for us the amount of pressure you feel in your anus in pounds per square inch (SI units also acceptable) due to International Court of Justice deeming Kosovo’s 2008 declaration of independence from Serbia to be legal.

[Murataga]

ICJ rules for Kosovo independence declaration

The United Nations' International Court of Justice has deemed Kosovo’s 2008 declaration of independence from Serbia to be legal.

International law has no “prohibition on declarations of independence,” ICJ’s President Hasashi Owadi said announcing the opinion Thursday.

The decision, while nonbinding, makes way for Kosovo to seek broader international recognition of its statehood, which the U.S. and some 68 other countries have already recognized, while Serbia, Russia, China, Greece, Cyprus, Iran, Israel, and some 100 other countries have not.

Vice President Joe Biden called Serbian President Boris Tadic on Thursday in anticipation of the ICJ decision.

“The two leaders discussed the upcoming issuance of the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice on Kosovo’s declaration of independence,” a read-out of the call said. “The vice president affirmed the United States’ full support for a democratic and multi-ethnic Kosovo, and he reiterated the United States’ unwavering commitment to Kosovo’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. He urged the Serbian government to work constructively to resolve practical issues with Kosovo to improve the lives of the people of Kosovo, Serbia, and of the region.”

The ICJ opinion is "something really positive — for the first time," Belgrade-based human rights activist Sonja Biserko, of the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights, told POLITICO in an e-mail. "Finally, [a] breakthrough."

But the Financial Times' Gideon Rachman notes that while the ICJ declared Kosovo's declaration of independence to be legal, "it has not pronounced on the legality of secession as such."

"This feels to me like an evasion," Rachman writes. "Common sense and the norms of free speech suggest that, of course, they are allowed to proclaim their independence. The question is whether the rest of us should recognise an independent Kosovo as a legal entity."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/lauraroze ... egal_.html

LONG LIVE THE FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATE OF KOSOVO!!!

[Kikapu]

One thing is to declare an Independence, legal or not, deemed by the ICJ and the other to be deemed legal or illegal by the UN and the International community. Anyone can declare independence if they can, but what good does it do when it falls on deaf ears, as the case is with the "trnc". Surely the Palestinians too can declare independence if they wanted and the ICJ would deem it also to be legal, but how would the Palestinians benefit from such an act in real value.? Obviously they have not declared independence for a very good reason. I can also declare my sail boat to be an independent country, whether I'm in port in some country or at sea, and the ICJ will deem it to be legal no doubt. So what.?? What have I gained with such a declaration when the UN and the International community ignores me.??

So basically what the ICJ has said is, that "a man can be an Island" after all.!

[Murataga]

One thing is to declare an Independence, legal or not, deemed by the ICJ and the other to be deemed legal or illegal by the UN and the International community. Anyone can declare independence if they can, but what good does it do when it falls on deaf ears, as the case is with the "trnc". Surely the Palestinians too can declare independence if they wanted and the ICJ would deem it also to be legal, but how would the Palestinians benefit from such an act in real value.? Obviously they have not declared independence for a very good reason. I can also declare my sail boat to be an independent country, whether I'm in port in some country or at sea, and the ICJ will deem it to be legal no doubt. So what.?? What have I gained with such a declaration when the UN and the International community ignores me.??

So basically what the ICJ has said is, that "a man can be an Island" after all.!

You`d be surprised at how much you`d gain when 68 countries recognize you as a state and the ICJ says it is not illegal to do so.

[CopperLine]

Kikapu, Nikitas, government of Cyprus and others, no that is not what the ICJ opined nor what it was asked to give an opinion over. It was giving an opinion on this : The ICJ "Is of the opinion that the declaration of independence of Kosovo adopted on 17 February 2008 did not violate international law." [my emphasis] And if you bother to look at the reasoning then it is crystal clear what they're saying (and what they're not saying : they're not saying anything about domestic prohibition on secession or UDI or other declarations of independence).

[CopperLine]

One thing is to declare an Independence, legal or not, deemed by the ICJ and the other to be deemed legal or illegal by the UN and the International community. Anyone can declare independence if they can, but what good does it do when it falls on deaf ears, as the case is with the "trnc". Surely the Palestinians too can declare independence if they wanted and the ICJ would deem it also to be legal, but how would the Palestinians benefit from such an act in real value.? Obviously they have not declared independence for a very good reason. I can also declare my sail boat to be an independent country, whether I'm in port in some country or at sea, and the ICJ will deem it to be legal no doubt. So what.?? What have I gained with such a declaration when the UN and the International community ignores me.??

So basically what the ICJ has said is, that "a man can be an Island" after all.!

Kikapu,
The PLO did declare independence and then under the PA that was recanted and is in fact a key piece of PA strategy regarding the so-called peace process.

[Kikapu]

One thing is to declare an Independence, legal or not, deemed by the ICJ and the other to be deemed legal or illegal by the UN and the International community. Anyone can declare independence if they can, but what good does it do when it falls on deaf ears, as the case is with the "trnc". Surely the Palestinians too can declare independence if they wanted and the ICJ would deem it also to be legal, but how would the Palestinians benefit from such an act in real value.? Obviously they have not declared independence for a very good reason. I can also declare my sail boat to be an independent country, whether I'm in port in some country or at sea, and the ICJ will deem it to be legal no doubt. So what.?? What have I gained with such a declaration when the UN and the International community ignores me.??

So basically what the ICJ has said is, that "a man can be an Island" after all.!

You`d be surprised at how much you`d gain when 68 states and the ICJ recognize you as an official state.

Surely if the 5 permanent UNSC members and the EU body recognised my Independence, it would be worth far more than the 68 states when it's without the UN and the EU body, if I wanted all the benefit afforded to me as a legitimate independent sovereign country (sailboat)..!

And that is the difference between Kosovo and the "trnc", Murataga, that Kosovo has some legitimacy because of their historic past as people on their own land and wanting self determination which the "trnc" can never have, even if the ICJ gave an opinion that the declaration of independence by the "trnc" back in 1983 was not illegal. The 68 nations recognised Kosovo's independence from the beginning without the opinion from the ICJ. Turkey still remains the only one for the "trnc", and only because they are the creators of the "trnc". What mother would not love it's own new born baby, no matter how ugly that baby was in the opinion of others, like the International community as a whole.?

By me declaring my sailboat as an independence country, would be only a fraction of a percentage less recognised by the International community than the "trnc" is. We would be almost the same in fact. The "trnc" has only one recognition out of the possibility of around 200 and I would have none, unless I can bribe some tinpot country to also recognise my sailboat as an independent country, then it will be same as the "trnc". Again, what would I gain from it, even if the ICJ said my declaration was not illegal.??

[Kikapu]

One thing is to declare an Independence, legal or not, deemed by the ICJ and the other to be deemed legal or illegal by the UN and the International community. Anyone can declare independence if they can, but what good does it do when it falls on deaf ears, as the case is with the "trnc". Surely the Palestinians too can declare independence if they wanted and the ICJ would deem it also to be legal, but how would the Palestinians benefit from such an act in real value.? Obviously they have not declared independence for a very good reason. I can also declare my sail boat to be an independent country, whether I'm in port in some country or at sea, and the ICJ will deem it to be legal no doubt. So what.?? What have I gained with such a declaration when the UN and the International community ignores me.??

So basically what the ICJ has said is, that "a man can be an Island" after all.!

Kikapu,
The PLO did declare independence and then under the PA that was recanted and is in fact a key piece of PA strategy regarding the so-called peace process.

Thank you for proving my point, CopperLine, that the PLO as the armed wing of the Palestinian Authority got nowhere with the UDI and the Palestinian Authority was smart enough to recognise the mistake made and then recanted it. Arafat as the "old soldier" of the PLO threatened many times in the few years before he died that he would declare independence again. He never did for obvious reasons.! Perhaps he saw how "well" the "trnc" were doing and gave up on the idea very fast.!