Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

OI VIEWPOINT!!YOU ARE A FIRST CLASS CUNT.

Whats with the foul language? Cant you keep it clean?

[charlie brown]

[quote="denizaksulu"][quote="charlie brown"]OI VIEWPOINT!!YOU ARE A FIRST CLASS CUNT.[/quote]


Whats with the foul language? Cant you keep it clean?[/quote]

Im so so sorry i sould not have used the word "viewpoint "

[Bananiot]

Of course not Deniz, he is another barbarian who learned Greek and thinks he is Greek.

[denizaksulu]

Of course not Deniz, he is another barbarian who learned Greek and thinks he is Greek.

May well be, but I enjoy pro's and cons of arguments, whether I agree with them or not, but the foulness of some people (both sides) ruins everything.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

Who cares about what the constitution said at that point after 1963. If the GCs kicked out the TCs as you always claimed, why would they worry about declaring Enosis.? Was it in the constitution to kick the TCs out of the government.?? What about the responsibilities on Greece and Turkey.? Was it in the constitution for them to invade and try to take all of Cyprus for one and 1/3rd for the other.?? Was it in the constitution that Britain would just sit out by NOT defending the Cypriots and the RoC government against Enosis seeking Junta and Taksim seeking invading Turkish army.? Are you really serious, that anyone would really care what the constitution said since no one actually paid attention to it, just because it was designed to be ignored anyway, just because it was not a workable constitution, but yet again, the RoC did not declare Enosis with Greece when the TCs were no longer in the government. WHY NOT.??

The GCs could not openly declare enosis as it was their claim they had no intention to gift the island to Greece thats why there are clauses which forbid it in the constitution as all parties concerned wanted to close that door but the GCs real aim was not independence which in itself was a big lie as in no had the ink dried on the agreements they supposedly supported they were using get rid of the TCs tactics my family included encouraging them to leave by providing work abroad and enough financial support to make sure they leave. This process was not fast enough for makarios and his hanch men they soon wanted to chnage the constituiron and proceeded to kick the TCs out for not giving into their demands, we held off for 11 years when the GCs and Greeks finally got greedy and decided to take the whole island in the name of enosis and in the famous words of samson get rid of the TCs.

Turkey is still trying to resolve the mess you people caused it was her duty to restore order, we have been negotiaitng for over 36 years and we are still no closer to "restoring order" than we were all those years ago so her duty has yet to be fullfilled and therefore has a valid reason to be here.

OK, VP, you really can't answer my question as to why the RoC did not declare Enosis with Greece during the time when the TCs were no longer in the government. In fact, the RoC has never declared Enosis with anyone, except with the EU, which the TCs are part of that "Enosis" and are benefiting from it.! What the Junta tried to do along with the GC fanatics in trying to unite RoC with Greece in 1974 was against the wishes of the RoC and the large majority of the GCs. The Enosis Dream was dead long before 1974 for the RoC. Taksim on the other hand, was Full Speed ahead in 1974 as it is today. You can't deny these facts, and if you do, you just end up responding with a lot of unfounded excuses and nothing else.

Many people left Cyprus right after the independence. Most chose to go to the UK like your parents, my father and many GC families also, just because the UK was offering opportunities. I'm sure there are 4 times as many GCs in the UK as there are TCs, and they were there before 1974.!

The only thing Turkey is trying to solve is how to keep the north and get into the EU herself or have the "trnc" be her umbilical cord to the EU. The 2004 Annan Plan would have solve all those problems for her, but now, I don't think what she can do with the north. It has become a "white elephant" for her. In the meantime, more TCs have left the north for other countries under the rule of Turkish Occupation than TCs left the island when the WHOLE island was under RoC rule between 1960 and 1974.

True Federation is not on GCs terms. You just don't have an answer, only excuses.

Prey tell us the answer you know full well GCs want to use their numerical advanatage to take control of the whole island and push us into minority status, name it what you will that is their ultimate goal and your are assiting them to achieve it.

That can only happen under True Federation if you keep more of their land to become part of the north state where there could be as many GCs as there would be TCs, and with True Democracy. Once you return 50% of the north back to the GCs to become part of the south state, you would have eliminated all your concerns. If that wasn't enough, then you can ask for derogation for the next 50-100 years from the EU where the north states GCs population grows at the same percentage as the TCs population growth. Since there would be ratio of at least 8:1 more TCs than GCs if most TCs were to move to the north state, I do not see the problem. my guess is, I do not believe the GCs will ever reach the same percentage growth vs. the Tcs in any one year. It will never be possible. In fact it will be a pointless derogation from the EU, but if it would make you sleep at ease at nights, I'm sure the GCs will give it to you under a True Federation.

Yes, we do know why you rejected a True Federation plan I gave you, because it did not allow you to secede from the Union or keep stolen GC land. You excuses for rejecting the plan I proposed, was, you were worried that the Federal Government would not trade with Turkey, they would shut down the whorehouse, and that they would shut down the Casinos. Those were you only concerns for rejecting the plan. Talk about running out of excuses and searching hard for reasons to avoid having a western style democracy under True Federation.!

Apart from the trade with Turkey comment which plays a very important rold in our economy the rest of your above quote is your own imagination, the comments were to prove that the federal level could not intervene in state business and I put forward issues which proved you worng, the principle being can GCs interfer with the north state which was the crux of the debate not the content example which is a totally different issue. I proved the GCs could if they wanted use federal laws to the detrement of the north state and there was absolutely nothing we could do to stop them, so please stop your lies and twisting of facts to promote your biased one sided negative views against TCs.

Actually VP, you are wrong. You did also mention the Casinos. You did not mention whorehouses directly, however. I think that was my interpretation in association whorehouses with Casinos. Here is what you said to my question.

Give us some examples what will be voted on by both the Houses that will harm the TC's more than the GC's, since the Upper and Lower Houses will vote on matters that concern the whole country and all the citizens and not individual communities or individuals citizens.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=10

Does the size of the state matter when if desired the GCs may use the right to reside where ever they wish which could also be to flood the north state whether it be a state 20% or 37%.

1. Stop trade with Turkey.

2. Ban Turkish workers.

3. Ban Casinos.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=40

So, VP, after all your years of concerns as to what the GCs may do if they were to gain one extra senate seat in the north by them "flooding" the north, your main concerns were the above 3 things. Of all the most terrible concerns you always talk about, you gave us the above 3 reasons, which actually are not even a consideration, except for the No.2, where the Turks would need to get a work permit along with all other non EU member immigrants. As I always stated, you are just looking for excuses, because unity is not what you are after, but partition with as much as stolen GC land as possible.

So who said we should re-invent the wheel and go back 200+ years to start where the Americans started from. We can start their type of True Federation from day one. If it's working in the US, why wouldn't work in Cyprus. You are just making more excuses, that's all.

They has 200 years ot perfect a system that suited them and you wish to implement this blue print in the hope that it will work in Cyprus, well I have news for you neither side trusts the other so it would fail from day one there has to be transition periods that would enourage cooperation revealing that all would benefit from unity and that GCs would not take control over the whole island trying to dominate and manipulate TCs as they did in the past.

More excuses from you VP. Actually, you do want to re-invent the wheel. You want to use the American system as it was used until about 50 years ago where it was Racist, Undemocratic and violation of Human Rights. That's what you want, except you want to apply these violations on the numerical majority by the numerical minority. You can choose the US system of today where these violations do not exists and the country runs just fine.

It's not rubbish. Only yesterday you were wanting to keep Verosa under the "trnc" authority after it was all fixed up. That tells us a lot about how you think.

Again you are taking things out of context, if you see it fit for TCs to be forced to live under GC administration why not the other way around? The offer was for GCs to return and live freely with TCs as do the Brits and other nations, this could have served as a catalyst for the rest of the island but of course your biased and one sided mindset rubbished the idea and therefore it was rejected and as usual for all Cypriots check mate prevails yet again.

No one is forcing the TCs to live under the GC administration in a True Federation. They can all live in the north state if they want, which I'm sure not all will want to do. But you are trying to force the GCs to live under the TC administration by keeping their land to become part of the north state and deny them their democratic rights at the same time. Now, under a Truer Federation and True Democracy you would not want to do that, since the GCs will dominate both the north state and the south state if you keep their land. You can only get away with it if it were to be a Confederation and a non democratic system, in which case, you can also secede from the union with the GCs land already in the north state and them kick the GCs out later since they can't vote anyway in the north so to achieve your Taksim and be in the EU at the same time. If you and I can figure this scheme out, don't you think everyone else also knows about it, which is the reason as to why the AP failed.

I'm sorry (not really) that I do not endorse a so called "peace plan" like the AP which you loved where it was a Confederation Plan which violated others Human Rights, violated International Laws, as well as EU Principles. What can I say, I live with western values where as you like to live values of non democratic nations, just because it is the only way you are able to abuse the rights of the numerical majority so that the numerical minority can have more rights, and you think this is acceptable. Well, it is not and you know it. Why else would you want the Turkish army to stay as a guarantor to baby sit you while you abuse others rights. It's the only way you can get away with such violations which also gives Turkey the excuse to stay in Cyprus as an guarantor (occupying) power.!

Switzerland is a confederation, you band the word around as if its bad or dirty? if it doesn't suit the GCs it doesnt mean its wrong sorry (not) the world just dont work that way. The AP was rubber stamped by the UN and EU if you feel it was against all you believe then take it up with them I think they are far better qualified than you to decide.

Yes, Switzerland in a Confederation with a Federation system of government. What about it. What does the Swiss system have anything to do with Cyprus. The Swiss are not trying to achieve Taksim or Enosis with anyone. Not even with the EU. Here is what I said to Tim a while back.

"Tim,

In a nutshell, the Swiss model cannot work for Cyprus, because neither the GC's not the TC's have their own specific land that they own or habitated throughout the centuries. All the Cantons of Switzerland, all 26 of them have joined the Union one by one over the last 900 years bringing with them their land and people to the Union to be part of the country of Switzerland. Had we had two distinct areas (cantons) in Cyprus also that had century old history and not what we have today where a division is forced by invasion, then I would agree with you that a confederation would be ideal, and this is what the Annan Plan wanted to do and this is what the TC leadership are after. But in order for this to even happen, the GC's will have to "gift" the northern part of Cyprus to the TC's and this land from here on will only be known as TC land, in effect to become a Canton. The south then would also become the next Canton and between the two, you can have a Swisss model created. The danger with such arrangement does not end there unfortunately, because as a Confederate state, each Canton can secede from the union just by people of that Canton holding a referendum to do so, and that's what could have happened in Cyprus and the AP passed. Besides, I'm giving you a plan based on agreed Federation of "BBF" and not Confederation based on "BBC".!"

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=30

You boast about living with western values and "democracy" with girls as young as 11 becoming pregnant and children as young as 10 smoking drinking you can keep your western values, you have no right to rubbish the way anyone elses decides to live as you know nothing about living in the TRNC how could you its all secnd hand informaiton spoon fed to you from your GC chums who have you just where they want you out of the country and supporting their everymove. Well who really give a fuck about what you think in the grand scheme of things you matter far less than I do, so my choosing to live in the TRNC ismy choice and I happy I made the move the western values you think so much of as I am content living where I do not feel a foreigner, safe and not exposed to becoming a second class citizen as would be the case if I moved south today which is an example of how a united Cyprus would be, so if it takes Turkey to provide the TCs with all these advantages while they are still trying to restore order and we are forced by the GCs to endure inhumane embargoes then they can stay as long as they wish.

You whole above quote is nothing but gibberish of an NeoPartitionist idiot. Actually, your whole post is idiotic. Show me where any western Democracies make it a law that 11 year old girls can get pregnant or drink and do drugs. Western democracies have laws against adults abusing these children unlike in non democratic countries where young girls as young as 13 years old are made into brides of adult males as the case is in most muslim countries. We consider such acts a "statuary rape" by an adult, but I'm sure you celebrated as a matrimonial event and make a toast for the happy couple, even if she is to become the 6th wife..!:roll:

[Viewpoint]

Wow Kikapu talk about verbal diahorrea, where do I start...well here goes how do you expect to have productive debate when you dismiss mine and many other TCs concerns? How do you expect to influence people when you do not even acknowledge that they have valid points? How do you expect to be taken seriously when you think you are 100% right?

You may have a gift of being able to express your ideas and arguements very clearly in an excess number of words but none of this counts when your ideology is biased to the extent of nausia.

You really need to sit up and take in what I am saying as your responeses are very playing to the stands and not addressing what needs to be addressed in order to get TCs to commit to anything you have to suggest.

OK, VP, you really can't answer my question as to why the RoC did not declare Enosis with Greece during the time when the TCs were no longer in the government. In fact, the RoC has never declared Enosis with anyone, except with the EU, which the TCs are part of that "Enosis" and are benefiting from it.! What the Junta tried to do along with the GC fanatics in trying to unite RoC with Greece in 1974 was against the wishes of the RoC and the large majority of the GCs. The Enosis Dream was dead long before 1974 for the RoC. Taksim on the other hand, was Full Speed ahead in 1974 as it is today. You can't deny these facts, and if you do, you just end up responding with a lot of unfounded excuses and nothing else.

You do not have to come out and declare anything all you have to do is take the nescessary actions to achieve your dream which for the GCs is enosis, so your response is again just playing to the stands, the GCs could not declare enosis becuase they had just gained independence and the constitiution was drawn up so as to prevent enosis and give the TCs the mechanism as to protect theit interests in the "RoC"

Taksim was in direct response to enosis and is a sharing ideology whereas enosis was not, it was in fact the death warrant for the majority of TCs against which we have to fight to survive, the simple fact is that we physically suceeded and the GCs failed to turn the whole of Cyprus into a Greek island.

Many people left Cyprus right after the independence. Most chose to go to the UK like your parents, my father and many GC families also, just because the UK was offering opportunities. I'm sure there are 4 times as many GCs in the UK as there are TCs, and they were there before 1974.!

GCs left of their own freewill whereas the majority of TCs were pressurised and coaxed to leave (like my parents) by makarios and his henchmen, theres a big difference but you could never understand this.

The only thing Turkey is trying to solve is how to keep the north and get into the EU herself or have the "trnc" be her umbilical cord to the EU. The 2004 Annan Plan would have solve all those problems for her, but now, I don't think what she can do with the north. It has become a "white elephant" for her. In the meantime, more TCs have left the north for other countries under the rule of Turkish Occupation than TCs left the island when the WHOLE island was under RoC rule between 1960 and 1974.

Without a solution we are 100% with Turkey and will continue to support each other towards our goals.

That can only happen under True Federation if you keep more of their land to become part of the north state where there could be as many GCs as there would be TCs, and with True Democracy. Once you return 50% of the north back to the GCs to become part of the south state, you would have eliminated all your concerns. If that wasn't enough, then you can ask for derogation for the next 50-100 years from the EU where the north states GCs population grows at the same percentage as the TCs population growth. Since there would be ratio of at least 8:1 more TCs than GCs if most TCs were to move to the north state, I do not see the problem. my guess is, I do not believe the GCs will ever reach the same percentage growth vs. the Tcs in any one year. It will never be possible. In fact it will be a pointless derogation from the EU, but if it would make you sleep at ease at nights, I'm sure the GCs will give it to you under a True Federation.

I have stated this before but you still persist with your true federation and democracy crap these are just labels that act as camaflouge to conceal handing the whole island to the GCs on a plate, if there are no concerns about derogations then why do Gcs object ot them so admantly, if there guarantees are going to become redundent then whats the problem with having them in place? if there is not going to be intercommunaş fighting then why not have the army in place? trying to have these matters removed only increases suspician that something will go worng and we will not have the mechanism in place to quell and problems that may occur.

Actually VP, you are wrong. You did also mention the Casinos. You did not mention whorehouses directly, however. I think that was my interpretation in association whorehouses with Casinos. Here is what you said to my question.

This is one of your most annoying habits you make things up then you believe your own lies and try to trick other into believing you as well.

So, VP, after all your years of concerns as to what the GCs may do if they were to gain one extra senate seat in the north by them "flooding" the north, your main concerns were the above 3 things. Of all the most terrible concerns you always talk about, you gave us the above 3 reasons, which actually are not even a consideration, except for the No.2, where the Turks would need to get a work permit along with all other non EU member immigrants. As I always stated, you are just looking for excuses, because unity is not what you are after, but partition with as much as stolen GC land as possible.

No you are again taking things out of context these were the first things that came to mind Im sure there are more important issues which were covered in the AP and that our leaders will put forward during the current negotiations, I put the 3 subjects forward to prove how floored your plan was and that just one seat would mean the end of the TCs effective say at federal level therefore their own future and state, you to agreed that once the balance had gone in the GCs favour we would be left in the cold without a voice to say or effective influence or stop matters at federal level which would directly effect both states. I call them concerns and fears you call them excuses because you do not want to firstly acknowledge or address them which only intensifies my need to place more barriers to counter your dangerous mentality.

More excuses from you VP. Actually, you do want to re-invent the wheel. You want to use the American system as it was used until about 50 years ago where it was Racist, Undemocratic and violation of Human Rights. That's what you want, except you want to apply these violations on the numerical majority by the numerical minority. You can choose the US system of today where these violations do not exists and the country runs just fine.

Did you know the wheel was square before it was reinvented, there are always better ways to solve matters, one size does not fit all....sometimes you have to have things tailor made.

No one is forcing the TCs to live under the GC administration in a True Federation. They can all live in the north state if they want, which I'm sure not all will want to do. But you are trying to force the GCs to live under the TC administration by keeping their land to become part of the north state and deny them their democratic rights at the same time

Doesnt this knife cut both ways? you are saying its ok for TCs to live under GC administration as they to have land in the south but not for GCs to live under a TC administration, you are a hypocrite of the highest order. You offer that all the TCs go live in the north state to get away from being forced into a GC state, cant the GCs do the same and move south if the do not want to live in a TC state? typical western style double standards.

Now, under a Truer Federation and True Democracy you would not want to do that, since the GCs will dominate both the north state and the south state if you keep their land. You can only get away with it if it were to be a Confederation and a non democratic system, in which case, you can also secede from the union with the GCs land already in the north state and them kick the GCs out later since they can't vote anyway in the north so to achieve your Taksim and be in the EU at the same time. If you and I can figure this scheme out, don't you think everyone else also knows about it, which is the reason as to why the AP failed.

As I have always stated then any new system would have to guarantee we dont not all the Gcs to dominate the north state but allow everyone to choose freely under which administration they wish to reside.
As I proposed before an island wide voting system could be introduced with a first past the post quota system that wouls allow everyone to vote for whom ever they wished.

Yes, Switzerland in a Confederation with a Federation system of government. What about it. What does the Swiss system have anything to do with Cyprus. The Swiss are not trying to achieve Taksim or Enosis with anyone. Not even with the EU. Here is what I said to Tim a while back.

So you agree confederation is not a dirty word as you like to use its just another way of living together.

You whole above quote is nothing but gibberish of an NeoPartitionist idiot. Actually, your whole post is idiotic. Show me where any western Democracies make it a law that 11 year old girls can get pregnant or drink and do drugs. Western democracies have laws against adults abusing these children unlike in non democratic countries where young girls as young as 13 years old are made into brides of adult males as the case is in most muslim countries. We consider such acts a "statuary rape" by an adult, but I'm sure you celebrated as a matrimonial event and make a toast for the happy couple, even if she is to become the 6th wife..!

You are talking utter crap its those western values you are so proud of that produce the individuals with such low standards and family values, as for all the other shit you go on about we do not have such practices in the TRNC and your blow is well below the belt.

[zan]

Well VP......Kiks game plan of waffling on and on about nothing hoping that people will not respond is not paying off with you I nonce accused him of not having any Americanisms in his writing but he is proving me wrong......

[AmericanGC]

Western values do not allow young girls to be forced into marriage with old disgusting Islamic perverts. In America child abusers are not even safe in prison. The fact is Islam is perverted ideology of a child molester who enjoyed having sex with a child. Even for that time it was disgusting and perverted. Are Muslim so called men so weak they need to force young women to marry them. It does not surprise me it's right in line with how they fight on the battle field, like scared weak pussies.

[Get Real!]

Western values do not allow young girls to be forced into marriage with old disgusting Islamic perverts. In America child abusers are not even safe in prison. The fact is Islam is perverted ideology of a child molester who enjoyed having sex with a child. Even for that time it was disgusting and perverted. Are Muslim so called men so weak they need to force young women to marry them. It does not surprise me it's right in line with how they fight on the battle field, like scared weak pussies.

Junk post!

[denizaksulu]

A-GC must be a Mormon/Hamish.