Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

So why didn't the RoC declare Enosis with Greece between 1964-1974 when they had a free hand to do so, since there were no TCs in the government to veto such a vote.?? If what you say is all true, don't you think the most logical thing for the RoC to do was to declare Enosis with Greece as soon as the TCs were out of the government.? The RoC was the recognised government after 1963 events which continues to be also today ever since, so why didn't they declare Enosis if that's what they wanted to do after 1964.

The new constitution clearly stated that enosis with any other country was forbidden that's why GCs couldn't openly do this but the undercurrents were still in place and functioning fine that's why the chalice was still burning strong in Greece and was clearly a contributing factor to 1974.

Who cares about what the constitution said at that point after 1963. If the GCs kicked out the TCs as you always claimed, why would they worry about declaring Enosis.? Was it in the constitution to kick the TCs out of the government.?? What about the responsibilities on Greece and Turkey.? Was it in the constitution for them to invade and try to take all of Cyprus for one and 1/3rd for the other.?? Was it in the constitution that Britain would just sit out by NOT defending the Cypriots and the RoC government against Enosis seeking Junta and Taksim seeking invading Turkish army.? Are you really serious, that anyone would really care what the constitution said since no one actually paid attention to it, just because it was designed to be ignored anyway, just because it was not a workable constitution, but yet again, the RoC did not declare Enosis with Greece when the TCs were no longer in the government. WHY NOT.??

If you mean we, as in we TCs, the TCs are not becoming a province of Turkey, because under such a scenario, the TC heritage and history will be wiped off by the Turks. The TCs will be swallowed up by the Turks and left on the ground as droppings.The north then will become another province of Turkey, most likely the Gambling & Whorehouse holiday destination and not the preserved TC culture destination.

Again I will repeat this is much preferred to unity with GCs on their terms.

True Federation is not on GCs terms. You just don't have an answer, only excuses.

Who ever asked the TCs to accept a bad solution.?? Not me. I have always stood by True Federation for Cyprus and for all Cypriots as we have in the states where each state is free to do as they like, as long as they do not violate the Federal laws of the land which are designed to protect everyone.

We all know what your idea of a true federation is, we read and debated it we all saw it was just another way of handing the whole island to the GCs on plate and therefore it was rejected and thrown in the bin.

Yes, we do know why you rejected a True Federation plan I gave you, because it did not allow you to secede from the Union or keep stolen GC land. You excuses for rejecting the plan I proposed, was, you were worried that the Federal Government would not trade with Turkey, they would shut down the whorehouse, and that they would shut down the Casinos. Those were you only concerns for rejecting the plan. Talk about running out of excuses and searching hard for reasons to avoid having a western style democracy under True Federation.!

Show me how any one of the states in the USA can dominate and discriminate against the other state in a True Federation.?

They have struck a balance over many years we do not and at this rate will never trust each other to find the balance necessary to live in harmoney we always feel the other side is trying to stab us in the back and take control of the whole island. That's why we demand guarantees and security that will not allow this to happen.

So who said we should re-invent the wheel and go back 200+ years to start where the Americans started from. We can start their type of True Federation from day one. If it's working in the US, why wouldn't work in Cyprus. You are just making more excuses, that's all.

It is easy for you to make accusations but you have no proof to support your claim. All you care about is how to keep the stolen GC land in the north and get away with it, which the True Federation will not allow you to do that. You think by keeping the extra stolen GC land is what is going to make the north prosper into a economic power house. It hasn't worked for Turkey with the amount of land they have, what makes you think it would work in the north.

Total rubbish not even worth answering.

It's not rubbish. Only yesterday you were wanting to keep Verosa under the "trnc" authority after it was all fixed up. That tells us a lot about how you think.

Your support of the Annan Plan was to have a state laws where they could violate the Federal Laws if they wanted, even if it meant to violate others Democratic and Human Rights. To you True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU Principles constitutes a Bad Solution for the TCs, and only if the above principles were violated, then you would think they were a Good Solution for the TCs. No wonder the rest of Europe thinks Turks do not belong in the EU.

This is your interpretation but we do not have to agree with it, you obviously and clearly do not have an understanding of the TCs viewpoint which is moulded by their concerns and fears, the words you band around on this forum of true democracy human rights and democracy for all are just that words, the important thing is practice and thus so far you have failed to put anything forward that would answer he concerns of both sides. So you really need to change your record as it is getting real boring and use your verbal diahorrea to good use and convert your claims into feasibility that will honestly address the concerns of both sides.

I'm sorry (not really) that I do not endorse a so called "peace plan" like the AP which you loved where it was a Confederation Plan which violated others Human Rights, violated International Laws, as well as EU Principles. What can I say, I live with western values where as you like to live values of non democratic nations, just because it is the only way you are able to abuse the rights of the numerical majority so that the numerical minority can have more rights, and you think this is acceptable. Well, it is not and you know it. Why else would you want the Turkish army to stay as a guarantor to baby sit you while you abuse others rights. It's the only way you can get away with such violations which also gives Turkey the excuse to stay in Cyprus as an guarantor (occupying) power.!

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

Who cares about what the constitution said at that point after 1963. If the GCs kicked out the TCs as you always claimed, why would they worry about declaring Enosis.? Was it in the constitution to kick the TCs out of the government.?? What about the responsibilities on Greece and Turkey.? Was it in the constitution for them to invade and try to take all of Cyprus for one and 1/3rd for the other.?? Was it in the constitution that Britain would just sit out by NOT defending the Cypriots and the RoC government against Enosis seeking Junta and Taksim seeking invading Turkish army.? Are you really serious, that anyone would really care what the constitution said since no one actually paid attention to it, just because it was designed to be ignored anyway, just because it was not a workable constitution, but yet again, the RoC did not declare Enosis with Greece when the TCs were no longer in the government. WHY NOT.??

The GCs could not openly declare enosis as it was their claim they had no intention to gift the island to Greece thats why there are clauses which forbid it in the constitution as all parties concerned wanted to close that door but the GCs real aim was not independence which in itself was a big lie as in no had the ink dried on the agreements they supposedly supported they were using get rid of the TCs tactics my family included encouraging them to leave by providing work abroad and enough financial support to make sure they leave. This process was not fast enough for makarios and his hanch men they soon wanted to chnage the constituiron and proceeded to kick the TCs out for not giving into their demands, we held off for 11 years when the GCs and Greeks finally got greedy and decided to take the whole island in the name of enosis and in the famous words of samson get rid of the TCs.

Turkey is still trying to resolve the mess you people caused it was her duty to restore order, we have been negotiaitng for over 36 years and we are still no closer to "restoring order" than we were all those years ago so her duty has yet to be fullfilled and therefore has a valid reason to be here.

True Federation is not on GCs terms. You just don't have an answer, only excuses.

Prey tell us the answer you know full well GCs want to use their numerical advanatage to take control of the whole island and push us into minority status, name it what you will that is their ultimate goal and your are assiting them to achieve it.

Yes, we do know why you rejected a True Federation plan I gave you, because it did not allow you to secede from the Union or keep stolen GC land. You excuses for rejecting the plan I proposed, was, you were worried that the Federal Government would not trade with Turkey, they would shut down the whorehouse, and that they would shut down the Casinos. Those were you only concerns for rejecting the plan. Talk about running out of excuses and searching hard for reasons to avoid having a western style democracy under True Federation.!

Apart from the trade with Turkey comment which plays a very important rold in our economy the rest of your above quote is your own imagination, the comments were to prove that the federal level could not intervene in state business and I put forward issues which proved you worng, the principle being can GCs interfer with the north state which was the crux of the debate not the content example which is a totally different issue. I proved the GCs could if they wanted use federal laws to the detrement of the north state and there was absolutely nothing we could do to stop them, so please stop your lies and twisting of facts to promote your biased one sided negative views against TCs.

So who said we should re-invent the wheel and go back 200+ years to start where the Americans started from. We can start their type of True Federation from day one. If it's working in the US, why wouldn't work in Cyprus. You are just making more excuses, that's all.

They has 200 years ot perfect a system that suited them and you wish to implement this blue print in the hope that it will work in Cyprus, well I have news for you neither side trusts the other so it would fail from day one there has to be transition periods that would enourage cooperation revealing that all would benefit from unity and that GCs would not take control over the whole island trying to dominate and manipulate TCs as they did in the past.

It's not rubbish. Only yesterday you were wanting to keep Verosa under the "trnc" authority after it was all fixed up. That tells us a lot about how you think.

Again you are taking things out of context, if you see it fit for TCs to be forced to live under GC administration why not the other way around? The offer was for GCs to return and live freely with TCs as do the Brits and other nations, this could have served as a catalyst for the rest of the island but of course your biased and one sided mindset rubbished the idea and therefore it was rejected and as usual for all Cypriots check mate prevails yet again.

I'm sorry (not really) that I do not endorse a so called "peace plan" like the AP which you loved where it was a Confederation Plan which violated others Human Rights, violated International Laws, as well as EU Principles. What can I say, I live with western values where as you like to live values of non democratic nations, just because it is the only way you are able to abuse the rights of the numerical majority so that the numerical minority can have more rights, and you think this is acceptable. Well, it is not and you know it. Why else would you want the Turkish army to stay as a guarantor to baby sit you while you abuse others rights. It's the only way you can get away with such violations which also gives Turkey the excuse to stay in Cyprus as an guarantor (occupying) power.!

Switzerland is a confederation, you band the word around as if its bad or dirty? if it doesnt suit the GCs it doesnt mean its wrong sorry (not) the world just dont work that way. The AP was rubber stamped by the UN and EU if you feel it was against all you believe then take it up with them I think they are far better qualified than you to decide.

You boast about living with western values and "democracy" with girls as young as 11 becoming pregnant and children as young as 10 smoking drinking you can keep your western values, you have no right to rubbish the way anyone elses decides to live as you know nothing about living in the TRNC how could you its all secnd hand informaiton spoon fed to you from your GC chums who have you just where they want you out of the country and supporting their everymove. Well who really give a fuck about what you think in the grand scheme of things you matter far less than I do, so my choosing to live in the TRNC ismy choice and I happy I made the move the western values you think so much of as I am content living where I do not feel a foreigner, safe and not exposed to becoming a second class citizen as would be the case if I moved south today which is an example of how a united Cyprus would be, so if it takes Turkey to provide the TCs with all these advantages while they are still trying to restore order and we are forced by the GCs to endure inhumane embargoes then they can stay as long as they wish.

[thegame24]

Viewpoint you talk absolute nonsense.

You have a disgusting,twisted and lying mind.

[waldorf]

I would have to agree with you as it appears he is till living in the 60s.

[charlie brown]

VP is a double standard prostitute. He mentions the young age at witch girls become pregnent in the western world. But stands hard behind the animals who protect him from all those bad things he mentions . the same animals who raped children as young as six and old wemom as old as seventy when they invaded in the name or protection.

[Viewpoint]

VP is a double standard prostitute. He mentions the young age at witch girls become pregnent in the western world. But stands hard behind the animals who protect him from all those bad things he mentions . the same animals who raped children as young as six and old wemom as old as seventy when they invaded in the name or protection.

do you have proof from an independent source.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint you talk absolute nonsense.

You have a disgusting,twisted and lying mind.

and you are a fucking bastard try attacking the issues not the messenger.

[Malapapa]

VP is a double standard prostitute. He mentions the young age at witch girls become pregnent in the western world. But stands hard behind the animals who protect him from all those bad things he mentions . the same animals who raped children as young as six and old wemom as old as seventy when they invaded in the name or protection.

do you have proof from an independent source.

Are you denying that young girls and old women were raped by Turkey's 'peace operation' of 1974? If not, what are you playing at?

[thegame24]

This guy is a fucking turk, cypriot my arse.

You are the fucking issue you cunt. If it wernt for the likes of you there would not be an issue with cyprus.

Why are you even on this board if you have no support for making Cyprus 1 and 1 only.

[Viewpoint]

VP is a double standard prostitute. He mentions the young age at witch girls become pregnent in the western world. But stands hard behind the animals who protect him from all those bad things he mentions . the same animals who raped children as young as six and old wemom as old as seventy when they invaded in the name or protection.

do you have proof from an independent source.

Are you denying that young girls and old women were raped by Turkey's 'peace operation' of 1974? If not, what are you playing at?

Im just asking for credible evidence, you cannot make cliams you cannot back up with independent evidence.