Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

OK Kikapu I see where you're coming from, exceot please don't descend into the facile allegation that I "want to wait until some other outside power comes and gives it to them away from Turkey ... " That is baseless, wreckless pure supposition on your part : I have never suggested anything of the kind.

[Kikapu]

Careful for what you might wish for, Kikapu.

(It is a strange mark of Cypriots pre-occupied with the Cyprus problem that so many of them seem to think that Cyprus is uniquely damaged, ravaged and divided and incomparable in the difficulties of repair. I've posted several times here that the Cyprus problem in its entirety is small fry compared with the horrors that have visited (and been resolved) in hundreds of other parts of the world, including other parts of Europe. But no, for so many on this forum, Cyprus' fate has been bloodier, more tragic and less amenable to repair than anyone/where else, ever. OK I exaggerate (but not by much)).

I was only responding to your statement when you said, "Surely the answer is that no other European country has had a particular history like Cyprus.", which sounded as if Cyprus was the badest dude of all others in Europe. I'm glad you do not think so with your above statement, which I agree with.

Germany and Japan were reconstituted (literally) on the basis of unconditional surrender to the Allies. Both the new constitutions of Germany and Japan were written in Washington and London. They were liberal democratic constitutions undemocratically imposed by imperial powers. Maybe that's what Cyprus needs ... I mean has got already ...

Not only was there massive ethnic cleansing or genocide by the Nazis across Europe, but there was massive ethnic cleansing, mass rape, wholesale expulsions, mass expropriation and so on by Allied forces of ethnic Germans at the end and after the war. What Cyprus suffered in half a century can be contained in just one month on one small front in 1945.

What you say is true, but I don't see USA and UK sticking their noses in the business of the Germans and the Japanese, such as being "guarantor powers" first and then not living up to their obligations, but instead becoming an occupying power on part of the island in favouring one community over the other. If it's question of wanting a military base as what the US got in Germany and Japan, then let Turkey say so, otherwise there is no comparison. Perhaps the RoC should raise the white flag now in the hopes that they will get the same treatment from Turkey as the Germans and the Japanese got from the US/UK.!:lol:

You say that Belgian system hangs by a thin thread as if this is a conclusive reason for rejecting (just one) 'federal' system. Yet Belgium has held together since its artificial creation in 1830, and survived two world wars fought on its soil, and has no modern history of ethnic cleansing, has no modern history of dispossession of one set of citizens by another. Sure there are problems - mostly conjured up by ultra-nationalists and racists, as everywhere - but basically the Belgium system works.

As for your last question, it has got to be a joke ! To date no Kurdish separatists have ever taken effective control of the Kurdish area of Turkey. If and when the day comes when the Turkish state describes the Kurdish areas as "Under Kurdish occupation" or "the illegal so-called Kurdish state" and the rest of Turkey as "free zones" then an AP type plan may be called for.

As for the above, 30,000 Turkish citizens lost their lives in the Kurdish desire to claim their own land as their own, but you want to wait until some other outside power comes and gives it to them away from Turkey, as Turkey did in Cyprus, when the TCs did not even have their own area as such, but were rather mixed all over the island until Turkey did it for the TCs through killings, rapes and ethnic cleansing to warrant a AP Plan for the whole island. No wonder the GCs said to the AP...Errrr, thanks, but no thanks and gave OXI OXI OXI.!

As for Belgium, for the moment they have a desire to keep it together as one country, despite their problems, but in Cyprus no such desires were/are there when you had Enosis fanatics then and Taksim fanatics then and now, anything like the Annan Plan is a sure way to create a permanent partition. Otherwise, why would Turkey insist on such a lob sided AP Plan.? If it was nothing more than to get a OXI vote, then that's what they got, and if it was to have complete control over the island, is not what they got, unless you think with the passing of the AP, then we would have been given the same Democracies enjoyed by the Japanese and the Germans once the RoC made a unconditional surrender to Turkey.!

[Kikapu]

OK Kikapu I see where you're coming from, exceot please don't descend into the facile allegation that I "want to wait until some other outside power comes and gives it to them away from Turkey ... " That is baseless, wreckless pure supposition on your part : I have never suggested anything of the kind.

I never suggested as such either, CopperLine, only interpreting what you stated, which you had implied, that the only way the Kurds can get something like the Annan Plan in Turkey, is if they were to become an illegal state, such as what the "trnc" is based on International community, which came about as of invasion and occupation by a foreign power. It is then very easy to come to the conclusion, that what the Kurds need also, is the same as to how the "trnc" was created, in order to award them and the free areas of Turkey with the Annan Plan.! Nothing is impossible, as Time Does Not Stand Still.!

[SKI-preo]

I don't see the current collapse in Israeli-Turkish Relations assisting partitionists or policies focusing on maintaining ethnic cleansing.Maybe the other end is near. Is this post about J-Lo's ass?

[Malapapa]

Is this post about J-Lo's ass?

No, J-Lo's end didn't come anywhere near Cyprus.

[Byron]

The end has already passed. it is the new beginning that everyone is waiting for.

[Viewpoint]

The end has already passed. it is the new beginning that everyone is waiting for.

Have the talks ended?

[paliometoxo]

they may as well have..

[Viewpoint]

they may as well have..

I think everyone is looking for a way out but doesnt want to be seen as the first to leave the table.

[paliometoxo]

they may as well have..

I think everyone is looking for a way out but doesnt want to be seen as the first to leave the table.

yes because the first to do so will be seen as the the reason why talks fail and it will give great advantage to the other side