Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

VP said:

"Why arent GCs promoting this idea and clarifying exactly how handing Maraş back would benefit everyone. How can you hand it back to the GCs then beg that they share the work that will go into rebuilding it?"

Several members of Parliament and Eurodeputies promoted the ideas I have mentioned above in several CYBC bordcasts and newspaper articles. They put the value of the project at 5 billion Euro, I think that this figure is too low.

Handing it back automatically qualifies all Cypriots to work on the project. Dealing with it as a card in a bazaar game is what would disqualify all but those who put up the ante.

The opening of Famagusta would by itself, with no need for agreements and formalities force the opening of Famagusta port. Simple business logic forces this solution when thousands of tons of material have to be imported and an equal volume of scrap material has to be exported.

And I am still wondering if anyone has thought what a 10 to 15 billion largely self financed project would mean for the economy of the island. Apparently no one has.

[Acikgoz]

Of course it makes lots of sense financially as do so many other changes.

Think of the joy of the night for those J-Lo lovers which was forceably cancelled.

Just consider what the AP would have done to commerce. All that land to be rejuvinated would have made Varosha look like a bit project.

[Viewpoint]

VP are you for real..... this would be an agreement like any other it will signed by all parties. The UN will auspice the city development and that's your guarantee lol. Like I said am not the one doing the signing take it to your leaders they can look at it and propose to Christofias. I don't have the mechanics ask Nikitas to explain further.

Am not sure what you are suggesting in terms of refugees not returning.

Furthrmore your leader is pushing for confederation which is also outside all parametres thus far signed so may be Christofias can't be fucked proposing something that your leader is moving the other direction. Blame him not the GC's our stance has been clear.

Unification of Cyprus under one internationa/ national identity, citizehsips and rights

Your proposal is rejected due to leave it to chance methods not good enough.

[Viewpoint]

VP said:

"Why arent GCs promoting this idea and clarifying exactly how handing Maraş back would benefit everyone. How can you hand it back to the GCs then beg that they share the work that will go into rebuilding it?"

Several members of Parliament and Eurodeputies promoted the ideas I have mentioned above in several CYBC bordcasts and newspaper articles. They put the value of the project at 5 billion Euro, I think that this figure is too low.

Handing it back automatically qualifies all Cypriots to work on the project. Dealing with it as a card in a bazaar game is what would disqualify all but those who put up the ante.

The opening of Famagusta would by itself, with no need for agreements and formalities force the opening of Famagusta port. Simple business logic forces this solution when thousands of tons of material have to be imported and an equal volume of scrap material has to be exported.

And I am still wondering if anyone has thought what a 10 to 15 billion largely self financed project would mean for the economy of the island. Apparently no one has.

Can the situation be manipulated to such a degree that the TCs will be left out in the cold? Who will hand out the projects? Can Famagusta port be by passed via Larnaca if the GCs decided this? To many open ends and things left to chance that probably no one has taken this proposal seriously. As far as I am aware our side feel Maraş in part of a comprehensive solution which the majority support.

[bill cobbett]

VP, quite right there is a port at Larnaca, not terribly big one, and it is at some distance from the Highway system, so are you suggesting that millions of tons of materials will be moved in and out through Larnaca Town in preference to a port that's what, one mile away????

As to who will hand out the projects? Well perhaps it's gonna be the lowest bidder, the lowest bidder for individual projects or the lowest bidding consortium for the larger infrastructure projects. All down to money.

[vaughanwilliams]

vaughnwilliams: I have the suspicion you don't want a deal struck between the two sides because you are happy exploiting the situation for the quaint and quiet of the occupied areas. Personal gains of a different kind.

Your suspicions are unfounded.
I'd love to see a deal struck between the two sides that would put both GCs and TCs on an equal footing and allowed both sides to progress. My suspicion is that within 5 to 10 years the GCs would have gained the upper hand, overtly and covertly, to the TCs disadvantage.
One major stumbling block would be the amount of public sector money that would need to be spent in TRNC to bring it, as quickly as possible, up to the same standard as RoC. Turkey can't and won't spend that money and it will fall to RoC and the EU to fund it. This will more than likely be seen by many GCs as "rewarding" the TCs for "deliberately" allowing their country to fall into disrepair, only to be bailed out by RoC taxpayers.

[vaughanwilliams]

VP, quite right there is a port at Larnaca, not terribly big one, and it is at some distance from the Highway system, so are you suggesting that millions of tons of materials will be moved in and out through Larnaca Town in preference to a port that's what, one mile away????

As to who will hand out the projects? Well perhaps it's gonna be the lowest bidder, the lowest bidder for individual projects or the lowest bidding consortium for the larger infrastructure projects. All down to money.

Since when did any project, small or large, go to the lowest bidder in Cyprus, North or South. Pre-existing realtionships of a financial as well as family nature will always influence where work goes.

[Nikitas]

VP asked:

"Can the situation be manipulated to such a degree that the TCs will be left out in the cold? Who will hand out the projects?"

given enough bad faith everything can be suborned and corrupted. Since 2004 EU rules also play a big part, every tender is open to all EU resident entities and professionals. But all this is applicable to public projects which would be planned and funded by the Famagusta municipality and the government. Housing and business projects like hotels are private and the owner decides who to hire and employ and hence cost is the major consideration.

Even if the "buddy system" plays out, the main contractor cannot do it all directly, sub contractors must be hired to do the actual work. For instance, the Rio-Antirio bridge in Greece was a French contract, but the consulting engineers were the British firm Wimpey and the actual work was carried out by Greek subcontractors.

We are talking of housing in Famagusta that housed 45000 people which has to be replaced. There is enough work there that is more than the combined total of ALL construction in the north. And it is all concentrated in one place, with town planning matters settled, infrastructure like roads etc in place.

As to the port, Larnaca is 25 miles away, and that adds cost. Let us make a quick calculation: each house needs 10 aluminum windows and doors to be imported from the nearest aluminum manufacturing center which for this item is Greece. 4500 houses times 10 is 450 000 windows. Moving that load from Larnaca would probably double the transport cost. Private owners will not want to pay double the money when there is no benefit.

If the project ever takes off the problem will probably create a huge bottleneck in Famagusta port for five years and thus be a good chance for extending and updating the port itself. It might turn out that TC architects and builders will prove more efficient and get the lions share of the work. Thousands of TCs are already involved in the RoC construction sector.

Overall the project might be a blessing in another way, it will divert resources from the environmentally destructive "development" of unspoilt areas of the island, create a housing oversupply and might lead to some demolition and rehabilitation of land- but that is too much to ask for now.

[Nikitas]

"Turkey can't and won't spend that money and it will fall to RoC and the EU to fund it. This will more than likely be seen by many GCs as "rewarding" the TCs for "deliberately" allowing their country to fall into disrepair, only to be bailed out by RoC taxpayers."

Rewarding the TCs but also putting money through the economy and thus benefitting GC businesses as well. It is a mistake to see the existence of two federal states as a kind of competition. Money flows like water and it is up to those that manage things to ensure that it will flow their way. An example- many GCs have second homes in the south. It is paradoxical to have two homes in an island this size, but it is a fact. TCs could exploit the post settlement situation and encourage GCs to build their second home in their ancestral villages. Keeping a second home may be a money sink, but one which can be located in the north rather than the south.

[DT.]

For instance, the Rio-Antirio bridge in Greece was a French contract, but the consulting engineers were the British firm Wimpey and the actual work was carried out by Greek subcontractors.

Need to correct you here Nikita J&P a Cypriot firm had a bigger stake than Wimpey in the joint venture.