Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

The real traitors are the leftist loser Greek Cypriots.

On this forum one cannot even tell apart alot of Greek Cypriots from Turks, because of the extreme leftism of some Greek Cypriots who think they are Cypriot Cypriot.

The real traitors are each and every Cypriot, including yourself for allowing yourself to be consumed with ideological hatred.

Cypriots were never united in the past, and the sooner your generation starts fertilising the ground, the better. Cyprus will then be in the hands of superior and more intelligent and rational beings where peace, tolerance, are nation bulding as Cypriots is the order of the day!

[Bananiot]

That's right, blame the leaders, the neighbours, every body else, except our thick head. Pathetic! Let us look at some facts though. Greece is the only country in Europe that quadrupled its area after winning a series of wars with its neighbours. The Greek army committed much ethnic cleansing in 1913 during the drive to Thessaloniki in order to create ethnically pure regions. Most warring armies did this at the same time. All wars against Turkey were started by Greece! Greece was a bad neighbour for Turkey but who cares. Had Greece succeeded in becoming a nation of two continents and five seas, the success would have been at the expense of Turkey of course, but who cares. Our egotistical self does not even allow us to see the obvious, that is, the Turkish resistance in 1919 was heroic (read "homage to anatolia" by Dido Soteriou but we will never accept this. We only accept the usual crap. We lost because we were betrayed by our leaders.

What a sick nation we are. Isn't anyone else simply fed up and sick with all these lies we are fed since we were born?

[Nikitas]

Bananiot,

Some Turks must have survived the ethnic cleansing of 1913 so they could be exchanged in 1923.

Considering that there was no Turkey before 1923 but the Ottoman empire, the success was that of Greece, and other former captive nations, against the Ottomans. At some point you must read the histories of other Balkan peoples who overthrew Turkish rule. They are not much different than the history of Greece nor were the results much different in terms of territorial gain. They too initiated wars, as is often the case of the oppressed, they act they do not react. The exception is of course Bulgaria which was subjected to such barbarity that even the British could not stomach it and gave the Ottomans an ultimatum to get out.

But how do these events affect the situation in Cyprus and its future? We have agreed to partition, we agreed to soften the effect by calling it BBF and the only thing we are negotiating is the extent and the from of partition. So where is the connection with the Greek part and Greece's successes against the Ottomans? I would have thought the situation is rather the reverse.

[Acikgoz]

Nikephore,

When you see a former minister, Stefanos Tzoumakas, on live Greek tv during the days before the Annan plan declaring loudly:

"you have suffered a military and diplomatic defeat" and when you have seen the debate in the Greek parliament where politicians who had been ministers in the Papandreou government of the 60s, people like Mitsotakis and Papandreou (Andreas), say clearly that the policy had been unionist then but it is not so now, then it is easy to see why people become Cypriot Cypriots. They do that because Greece clearly and openly says at the highest level that it disowns them.

Nothing wrong with disowning, if it was accompanied by pressure on Turkey to disown the TCs and thereby "Cypriotise" both major communities on the island. As you know (i am being funny now) Turkey has not shown such tendencies.

Nikitas, your point is truly understandable and if I can just comment on the last paragraph.
Turkey did want to disown the TCs, that was why the 2004 push came. They did not want however for there to be a risk of a repeat of the 60s and 70s. In what the GCs want the risk is for Turkey not Greece as TCs hold a position that can be undermined if the long term Cypriotness ideal is undermined by identity with underlying ethnicities.
This is why I say GCs give no room for manoever for Turkey on Cyprus policy. If GCs lessened their grip on TCs, had any real action displayed to demonstrate willingness to share responsibilities with TCs, Turkey would naturally lessen its grip on Cyprus. Erdogan had no interest in us non-religous apathetic Turkics (sorry for the generalisation, Mr E's perspective), he's got no choice now.
In the meantime, if the Jewish lobby gets its way to remove Mr E, the likely leader is one that is very right wing on Cyprus politics.

[Bananiot]

Nikitas

We have agreed to partition, we agreed to soften the effect by calling it BBF and the only thing we are negotiating is the extent and the from of partition.

So BBF is partition! However, we have agree to nothing Nikitas, who are we to agree? Ask yourself.

[Nikitas]

Bananiot,

We have been reaffirming our communal agreement to BBF since 1977 with stunning monotony.

And really, essentially speaking, when you qualify Federation as Bizonal and Bicommunal, are you not talking about partition? Or as they say in Cypriot- emeis poda, tzinoi potzi?

Perhaps I am cynical, but I do not see how any hint of Cypriotism can survive in a BBF style federation. There will be a little Turkey and a little Greece, divided by a line on the map. As far as I can tell the best Cypriots can hope for under this system is to have at least the same rights as other EU citizens, although that is not at all settled. One dim hope is that despite politicians the business and cultural life of the island will transcend the mechanics of BBF and reform vital centers for both culture and commerce.

[CopperLine]

Bananiot,

We have been reaffirming our communal agreement to BBF since 1977 with stunning monotony.

And really, essentially speaking, when you qualify Federation as Bizonal and Bicommunal, are you not talking about partition? Or as they say in Cypriot- emeis poda, tzinoi potzi?

Perhaps I am cynical, but I do not see how any hint of Cypriotism can survive in a BBF style federation. There will be a little Turkey and a little Greece, divided by a line on the map. As far as I can tell the best Cypriots can hope for under this system is to have at least the same rights as other EU citizens, although that is not at all settled. One dim hope is that despite politicians the business and cultural life of the island will transcend the mechanics of BBF and reform vital centers for both culture and commerce.

Nikitas
You are a puzzle. How is it possible for the person who wrote the above - a model of historical sensitivity, tolerance and hopefulness - be the same person who wrote a frighteningly ethnicist and intolerant post on another thread ?