Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

Unlike TMT which continued (continues) to receive government (Turkish) funding and support, there was no such organisation, extant in the years you mention, supporting the RoC. In fact, TMT was set-up to specifically target GCs and any means to destroy the RoC and as such, if it was within the capability of a war-torn RoC, one would expect to see some arrests. Any murders of TCs were done by fanatical GC individuals and not any organisation -- unlike TMT. Perhaps, if 1974 had not happened, the evidence wouldn't have been destroyed and 43,000 Turkish troops preventing island-wide investigations and justice (for how can you restrict searches to half an island -- did murders only occur in the southern parts of Cyprus? )

When TMT was set up, there was NO RoC. Please make note.

It was set up to specifically target GCs and whatever they aimed for, past, present and future.

....and TCs too

But TMT = TÜRK MUKAVEMET TEŞKİLATI

Mukavemet = Resistance (to GC aspirations of ENOSIS) This was how TCs perceived TMT at the time. Ordinary people knew nothing of any ulterior motive of the TMT then.

It is easy to talk with hind-sight.

If we knew then what we know now, that would be a different kettle of fish.

[Oracle]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

Unlike TMT which continued (continues) to receive government (Turkish) funding and support, there was no such organisation, extant in the years you mention, supporting the RoC. In fact, TMT was set-up to specifically target GCs and any means to destroy the RoC and as such, if it was within the capability of a war-torn RoC, one would expect to see some arrests. Any murders of TCs were done by fanatical GC individuals and not any organisation -- unlike TMT. Perhaps, if 1974 had not happened, the evidence wouldn't have been destroyed and 43,000 Turkish troops preventing island-wide investigations and justice (for how can you restrict searches to half an island -- did murders only occur in the southern parts of Cyprus? )

When TMT was set up, there was NO RoC. Please make note.

It was set up to specifically target GCs and whatever they aimed for, past, present and future.

....and TCs too

I'm glad you said that.

Now, would you kindly scan and post that leaflet so that we may evaluate the context of the refugee figures.

[denizaksulu]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

Unlike TMT which continued (continues) to receive government (Turkish) funding and support, there was no such organisation, extant in the years you mention, supporting the RoC. In fact, TMT was set-up to specifically target GCs and any means to destroy the RoC and as such, if it was within the capability of a war-torn RoC, one would expect to see some arrests. Any murders of TCs were done by fanatical GC individuals and not any organisation -- unlike TMT. Perhaps, if 1974 had not happened, the evidence wouldn't have been destroyed and 43,000 Turkish troops preventing island-wide investigations and justice (for how can you restrict searches to half an island -- did murders only occur in the southern parts of Cyprus? )

When TMT was set up, there was NO RoC. Please make note.

It was set up to specifically target GCs and whatever they aimed for, past, present and future.

....and TCs too

I'm glad you said that.

Now, would you kindly scan and post that leaflet so that we may evaluate the context of the refugee figures.

I will try and get another one. You must appreciate my wife is Cof E.

[AWE]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

Unlike TMT which continued (continues) to receive government (Turkish) funding and support, there was no such organisation, extant in the years you mention, supporting the RoC. In fact, TMT was set-up to specifically target GCs and any means to destroy the RoC and as such, if it was within the capability of a war-torn RoC, one would expect to see some arrests. Any murders of TCs were done by fanatical GC individuals and not any organisation -- unlike TMT. Perhaps, if 1974 had not happened, the evidence wouldn't have been destroyed and 43,000 Turkish troops preventing island-wide investigations and justice (for how can you restrict searches to half an island -- did murders only occur in the southern parts of Cyprus? )

So a foreign government meddled in Cyprus - didn't they all - but this fact still does not excuse the EU member Government of the RoC from failing to prosecute individuals who committed crimes against a minority of the citizens of the RoC unless of course the Government or society consider the extra-judicial killings to be acceptable when the victims are not GCs?

Do you consider it OK for a GC to murder a TC because of the actions of a foreign government and some member of the TCs community?

[denizaksulu]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

Unlike TMT which continued (continues) to receive government (Turkish) funding and support, there was no such organisation, extant in the years you mention, supporting the RoC. In fact, TMT was set-up to specifically target GCs and any means to destroy the RoC and as such, if it was within the capability of a war-torn RoC, one would expect to see some arrests. Any murders of TCs were done by fanatical GC individuals and not any organisation -- unlike TMT. Perhaps, if 1974 had not happened, the evidence wouldn't have been destroyed and 43,000 Turkish troops preventing island-wide investigations and justice (for how can you restrict searches to half an island -- did murders only occur in the southern parts of Cyprus? )

When TMT was set up, there was NO RoC. Please make note.

It was set up to specifically target GCs and whatever they aimed for, past, present and future.

....and TCs too

I'm glad you said that.

Now, would you kindly scan and post that leaflet so that we may evaluate the context of the refugee figures.

I will try and get another one. You must appreciate my wife is Cof E.

As I said, numbers dont count. Otherwise I would have kept the pamphlet and use it. It would be nice to be trusted but alas, I am labelled a 'Turk'.

[Nikitas]

"If we knew then what we know now, that would be a different kettle of fish."

But was the purpose not obvious when mob attacks against GC areas in general, with no specific individuals identifed, occurred in 1958? At least EOKA only targeted TC police officers who were in the pay of the colonial government.

There is also an interesting semantic nuance here, the acronym EOKA does not contain the word Greek, it is the National Organization of Cypriot Fighters. The very name of TMT should have been a hint.

[denizaksulu]

"If we knew then what we know now, that would be a different kettle of fish."

But was the purpose not obvious when mob attacks against GC areas in general, with no specific individuals identifed, occurred in 1958? At least EOKA only targeted TC police officers who were in the pay of the colonial government.

There is also an interesting semantic nuance here, the acronym EOKA does not contain the word Greek, it is the National Organization of Cypriot Fighters. The very name of TMT should have been a hint.

Semantics dear Nikitas, semantics.

EOKA; Cypriots always meant GC's all over the world. Right or wrong?

The TMT wanted to show their difference I suppose. Dont get me wrong; I am an apologist for no one. My family have been on the wrong end of the stick with the TMT. Thats another story.

As to the targetting of the properties around the Kyrenia gate area and the Taht el-kala (Tahta kale), they were targetted for obvious reasons: to establish a clear cut boundary in the city between GC and TC, stirred on by the hatred to the Idea of Enosis and the EOKA. I must admit There were shouts of partition at the time but a negotiated one. What I dont support is 'partition by force of arms'.

[Nikitas]

Deniz,

Partition, whether negotiated or forced, means that some of us will either be kicked out from ourr land or obliged to live under a government we do not elect. Eventually we are going to officialise with our signatures and plebiscites one or both of these choices.

What fascinates me in the process is the total lack of Cypriot generosity by the TC side, that is to recognise that they have won, they got their desired partition, to a degree that no negotiation would ever give them, and to take those steps that would minimise if not the pain at least the difficulties of the other side.

The personalities naturally play a part in this. I often wonder what experience made Denktash such an arrogant racist. He never worked for GCs, was not from a mixed village, made a succesful career under the British, so there does not seem to be any kind of unfortunate personal experience in his past to justify the hard line towards GCs . A man's soul is an abyss for sure.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz,

Partition, whether negotiated or forced, means that some of us will either be kicked out from ourr land or obliged to live under a government we do not elect. Eventually we are going to officialise with our signatures and plebiscites one or both of these choices.

What fascinates me in the process is the total lack of Cypriot generosity by the TC side, that is to recognise that they have won, they got their desired partition, to a degree that no negotiation would ever give them, and to take those steps that would minimise if not the pain at least the difficulties of the other side.

The personalities naturally play a part in this. I often wonder what experience made Denktash such an arrogant racist. He never worked for GCs, was not from a mixed village, made a succesful career under the British, so there does not seem to be any kind of unfortunate personal experience in his past to justify the hard line towards GCs . A man's soul is an abyss for sure.

He is a different kettle of fish. He was not so popular, just feared. He was clever but not many knew what was brewing in his mind. Definitely not the betterment of the Cypriots.

I am loathe to repeat myself regards to any sort of partition. I believe in the wholeness of Cyprus. (even if it seems like a dream - and I dont want to wake up from it to face the reality - in case I dont like it)

[Nikitas]

Deniz,

At this age I am resigned to the fact that no miracle llike the one that brought down the Berling wall will hapen in Cyprus. The most I see happening is the ability to reside wherever one wants but subject to the divisions imposed by this BBF thing. I am also ready to see a situation where all kinds of non Cypriots will be have the right to enjoy the whole island, but Cypriots will live in self imposed apartheid, all by the grace of Europe.

And I remained confused as to how a former resident of Paphos can be moved to Kyrenia and pretend to like it. No offence to Kyrenians, but you cannot compare the lush green valleys of Paphos to the dry Arizona-like semi desert of Kyrenia, especially the part on the south slopes of Pentadaktylos.