Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

I would have suggested to our Oracle that we dont work on 'probabilities'. If there are figures, then lets have ; if not O should remain silent henceforth.....But then that would be an IMPOSSIBLE FEAT.

[Oracle]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

Unlike TMT which continued (continues) to receive government (Turkish) funding and support, there was no such organisation, extant in the years you mention, supporting the RoC. In fact, TMT was set-up to specifically target GCs and any means to destroy the RoC and as such, if it was within the capability of a war-torn RoC, one would expect to see some arrests. Any murders of TCs were done by fanatical GC individuals and not any organisation -- unlike TMT. Perhaps, if 1974 had not happened, the evidence wouldn't have been destroyed and 43,000 Turkish troops preventing island-wide investigations and justice (for how can you restrict searches to half an island -- did murders only occur in the southern parts of Cyprus? )

[Oracle]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

I would have suggested to our Oracle that we dont work on 'probabilities'. If there are figures, then lets have ; if not O should remain silent henceforth.....But then that would be an IMPOSSIBLE FEAT.

I've worked them out before for BirKibrisli (funny, he's disappeared ) --I'll look for them later. But, it was (more) shocking when looked at laterally and instead of just saying 200 TCs were killed by GCs and 200 GCs were killed by TCs -- one looks at how many murderers this represents in the TC population as a whole, or of the GC population and I'm afraid that horrifically represents a greater proportion of "murderous TCs" than it does GCs. This of course is significant when partitionists claim that they cannot live with GCs because we (the general population) are fanatical murderers ... rubbish, since for such a small (15%) population, you TCs sure caused a hell of a lot of GC deaths!

[denizaksulu]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

Unlike TMT which continued (continues) to receive government (Turkish) funding and support, there was no such organisation, extant in the years you mention, supporting the RoC. In fact, TMT was set-up to specifically target GCs and any means to destroy the RoC and as such, if it was within the capability of a war-torn RoC, one would expect to see some arrests. Any murders of TCs were done by fanatical GC individuals and not any organisation -- unlike TMT. Perhaps, if 1974 had not happened, the evidence wouldn't have been destroyed and 43,000 Turkish troops preventing island-wide investigations and justice (for how can you restrict searches to half an island -- did murders only occur in the southern parts of Cyprus? )

When TMT was set up, there was NO RoC. Please make note.

[denizaksulu]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

I would have suggested to our Oracle that we dont work on 'probabilities'. If there are figures, then lets have ; if not O should remain silent henceforth.....But then that would be an IMPOSSIBLE FEAT.

I've worked them out before for BirKibrisli (funny, he's disappeared ) --I'll look for them later. But, it was (more) shocking when looked at laterally and instead of just saying 200 TCs were killed by GCs and 200 GCs were killed by TCs -- one looks at how many murderers this represents in the TC population as a whole, or of the GC population and I'm afraid that horrifically represents a greater proportion of "murderous TCs" than it does GCs. This of course is significant when partitionists claim that they cannot live with GCs because we (the general population) are fanatical murderers ... rubbish, since for such a small (15%) population, you TCs sure caused a hell of a lot of GC deaths!

I remember that we tried to dis-entangle these numbers from the fictitious ones, but the concensus of opinion was that they were almost in similar numbers of killings. As a percentage of the population the TCs did suffer the worse. But whats the point of quibling with numbers. They can be misused /abused just like any other statistics.

Last week my wife brought me a leaflet she picked up from the Welling Greek Orthodox church. (she went on a church outing to Hastings with other Cypriots). She had no clue of the content of this leaflet. She thought I was interested. I was. It talked of 130,000 GC refugees after the events of 1974. A far cry from the rounded figure of 200,000 branded about, but WHO is counting. As I hinted ; figures can lie. The numbers dont matter anymore. What do we do from now on mattes more.

[Oracle]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

I would have suggested to our Oracle that we dont work on 'probabilities'. If there are figures, then lets have ; if not O should remain silent henceforth.....But then that would be an IMPOSSIBLE FEAT.

I've worked them out before for BirKibrisli (funny, he's disappeared ) --I'll look for them later. But, it was (more) shocking when looked at laterally and instead of just saying 200 TCs were killed by GCs and 200 GCs were killed by TCs -- one looks at how many murderers this represents in the TC population as a whole, or of the GC population and I'm afraid that horrifically represents a greater proportion of "murderous TCs" than it does GCs. This of course is significant when partitionists claim that they cannot live with GCs because we (the general population) are fanatical murderers ... rubbish, since for such a small (15%) population, you TCs sure caused a hell of a lot of GC deaths!

I remember that we tried to dis-entangle these numbers from the fictitious ones, but the concensus of opinion was that they were almost in similar numbers of killings. As a percentage of the population the TCs did suffer the worse. But whats the point of quibling with numbers. They can be misused /abused just like any other statistics.

Last week my wife brought me a leaflet she picked up from the Welling Greek Orthodox church. (she went on a church outing to Hastings with other Cypriots). She had no clue of the content of this leaflet. She thought I was interested. I was. It talked of 130,000 GC refugees after the events of 1974. A far cry from the rounded figure of 200,000 branded about, but WHO is counting. As I hinted ; figures can lie. The numbers dont matter anymore. What do we do from now on mattes more.

There's no point condemning all the figures just because some use erroneous ones.

Why don't you give me the figures you are comfortable with (I trust you will use a trustworthy source) of how many GCs and TCs were killed in the inter-communal conflict years (1960 - 1974 ?) and the population of TCs and GCs in that time, and we'll go from there. That way, we can put to the test this partitionists' "axiom" that GCs are a murderous population and TCs cannot live with them safely!

[denizaksulu]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

I would have suggested to our Oracle that we dont work on 'probabilities'. If there are figures, then lets have ; if not O should remain silent henceforth.....But then that would be an IMPOSSIBLE FEAT.

I've worked them out before for BirKibrisli (funny, he's disappeared ) --I'll look for them later. But, it was (more) shocking when looked at laterally and instead of just saying 200 TCs were killed by GCs and 200 GCs were killed by TCs -- one looks at how many murderers this represents in the TC population as a whole, or of the GC population and I'm afraid that horrifically represents a greater proportion of "murderous TCs" than it does GCs. This of course is significant when partitionists claim that they cannot live with GCs because we (the general population) are fanatical murderers ... rubbish, since for such a small (15%) population, you TCs sure caused a hell of a lot of GC deaths!

I remember that we tried to dis-entangle these numbers from the fictitious ones, but the concensus of opinion was that they were almost in similar numbers of killings. As a percentage of the population the TCs did suffer the worse. But whats the point of quibling with numbers. They can be misused /abused just like any other statistics.

Last week my wife brought me a leaflet she picked up from the Welling Greek Orthodox church. (she went on a church outing to Hastings with other Cypriots). She had no clue of the content of this leaflet. She thought I was interested. I was. It talked of 130,000 GC refugees after the events of 1974. A far cry from the rounded figure of 200,000 branded about, but WHO is counting. As I hinted ; figures can lie. The numbers dont matter anymore. What do we do from now on mattes more.

There's no point condemning all the figures just because some use erroneous ones.

Why don't you give me the figures you are comfortable with (I trust you will use a trustworthy source) of how many GCs and TCs were killed in the inter-communal conflict years (1960 - 1974 ?) and the population of TCs and GCs in that time, and we'll go from there. That way, we can put to the test this partitionists' "axiom" that GCs are a murderous population and TCs cannot live with them safely!

We Cypriots are bad as each other. Reliable figures are hard to come by.

The web site which was first posted by Halil and which I used and quoted from, then found out it was unreliable - has been removed perhaps because it has holes in it. Please dont ask for the impossible as having so many missing from both sides, it is impossible to get an exact figure.
I cant question the GC figures as I said above the often quoted figure of 200,000 refugees against GO church figure of 130,000. Take your pick. I will try and getthat brochure, but what does it matter?

[DTA]

Hi deniz I think the figure of 200,000 includes the 70,000 tcs that moved from the south. 200,000 does sound better than 130,000 for propaganda purposes, and obviously the roc were recieving money for their refugees 200,000 of them. So I guess they must of been recieving money for the tcs as well, any tc see any sign of the cash?

[denizaksulu]

Hi deniz I think the figure of 200,000 includes the 70,000 tcs that moved from the south. 200,000 does sound better than 130,000 for propaganda purposes, and obviously the roc were recieving money for their refugees 200,000 of them. So I guess they must of been recieving money for the tcs as well, any tc see any sign of the cash?

.

Hi DTA,

What you say may be correct, but I dont know. If one can get census records prior to 1974, that would be a help.

Either side will always refute the other sides figures. Jerrymandering is always a possibility where propaganda is concerned.

[Oracle]

Has the RoC ever prosecuted anyone for the murders and massacres of TCs committed from 63 to the division in 74? and if not why not? Cyprus is a small island and everyone knows everyone, it was smaller back then, so I can only assume that the state or the community feel that no crime was committed. As an EU member state this lack of action should be unacceptable, especially to a people and state that demand the rule of law with regard the events of 74 and afterwards. Or is this the usual hypocrisy that the law does not apply when it suits.

There were probably more TCs/TMTs who were murderers in that time period and so how many of them were found and punished?

I would suggest that there have been no prosecutions of TMT members in the TRNC but as the RoC is in the EU it should meet that standard of Justice - can you imagin Germany, Austria, Poland of the Balts NOT prosecuting an individual if it came out they were a member of an Einsatzgruppen?

Unlike TMT which continued (continues) to receive government (Turkish) funding and support, there was no such organisation, extant in the years you mention, supporting the RoC. In fact, TMT was set-up to specifically target GCs and any means to destroy the RoC and as such, if it was within the capability of a war-torn RoC, one would expect to see some arrests. Any murders of TCs were done by fanatical GC individuals and not any organisation -- unlike TMT. Perhaps, if 1974 had not happened, the evidence wouldn't have been destroyed and 43,000 Turkish troops preventing island-wide investigations and justice (for how can you restrict searches to half an island -- did murders only occur in the southern parts of Cyprus? )

When TMT was set up, there was NO RoC. Please make note.

It was set up to specifically target GCs and whatever they aimed for, past, present and future.