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[Filitsa]

It is my educated guess that 36-year-old Raoul Moat's inability to anticipate/understand the consequences of his choices and the need to blame others for said consequences is strong indication that he suffered from, among other things, arrested development likely due to his steroid addiction. In their attempt to protect the public, is it a reasonable function of the police to consider this disability while in pursuit of the suspect, particularly when the suspect is considered to be "armed and dangerous"?

[Schnauzer]

Would there have been such a massive "man-hunt" if he had not shot a policeman, I think not.....

Unfortunately I was not asked and in any case, I was having a shite at the time !.

I dont doubt it, you are certainly full of it,Wanker

ttoli, the level of intelligence depicted by your ignorant response is a credit to your countrymen, kindly remind me to compliment you on it.

[Schnauzer]

It is my educated guess that 36-year-old Raoul Moat's inability to anticipate/understand the consequences of his choices and the need to blame others for said consequences is strong indication that he suffered from, among other things, arrested development likely due to his steroid addiction. In their attempt to protect the public, is it a reasonable function of the police to consider this disability while in pursuit of the suspect, particularly when the suspect is considered to be "armed and dangerous"?

Filitsa, the police were well aware of Raoul Moat's mental state and the reasons for it, the manner in which they dealt with his pursuit and capture is more indicative of a thoroughly inept use of time manpower and equipment than sound judgement, IMHO.

If ever there was an occasion where a little common sense could have saved the taxpayer millions, this was it.

The police were well aware of the 'Armaments' at Moat's disposal (they had seen the injuries inflicted by them on one of their own officers) was it really necessary to call in the services of armoured vehicles (from Northern Ireland) helicopters and a battalion of heavily armed 'specialists' to deal with a mentally traumatised man with a 'Pop-gun' ?.

I personally think the whole episode was a shambles, the only justification I can see for the actions taken, was that the police force wished to highlight the enormous expense of such campaigns in order to negate the 'Cuts' promised by their new government.

All the foregoing does NOT mean that I condone in any way the actions of Raoul Moat, I, like most other people, think his actions were horrendous, the difference is, I would like to discover the reasons for them and I think I have.

[Oracle]

His killing definitely smacks of police-payback ...

[Filitsa]

It is my educated guess that 36-year-old Raoul Moat's inability to anticipate/understand the consequences of his choices and the need to blame others for said consequences is strong indication that he suffered from, among other things, arrested development likely due to his steroid addiction. In their attempt to protect the public, is it a reasonable function of the police to consider this disability while in pursuit of the suspect, particularly when the suspect is considered to be "armed and dangerous"?

Filitsa, the police were well aware of Raoul Moat's mental state and the reasons for it, the manner in which they dealt with his pursuit and capture is more indicative of a thoroughly inept use of time manpower and equipment than sound judgement, IMHO.

If ever there was an occasion where a little common sense could have saved the taxpayer millions, this was it.

The police were well aware of the 'Armaments' at Moat's disposal (they had seen the injuries inflicted by them on one of their own officers) was it really necessary to call in the services of armoured vehicles (from Northern Ireland) helicopters and a battalion of heavily armed 'specialists' to deal with a mentally traumatised man with a 'Pop-gun' ?.

I personally think the whole episode was a shambles, the only justification I can see for the actions taken, was that the police force wished to highlight the enormous expense of such campaigns in order to negate the 'Cuts' promised by their new government.

All the foregoing does NOT mean that I condone in any way the actions of Raoul Moat, I, like most other people, think his actions were horrendous, the difference is, I would like to discover the reasons for them and I think I have.

Would you care to share them, Shnauzer? I'm interested. And now that you think you have discovered the reasons, how would you have used this knowledge to resolve the situation differently? You see, I've identified three issues in your posts: 1) politics, 2) police budget cuts, and 3) Moat's motivation.

[Schnauzer]

It is my educated guess that 36-year-old Raoul Moat's inability to anticipate/understand the consequences of his choices and the need to blame others for said consequences is strong indication that he suffered from, among other things, arrested development likely due to his steroid addiction. In their attempt to protect the public, is it a reasonable function of the police to consider this disability while in pursuit of the suspect, particularly when the suspect is considered to be "armed and dangerous"?

Filitsa, the police were well aware of Raoul Moat's mental state and the reasons for it, the manner in which they dealt with his pursuit and capture is more indicative of a thoroughly inept use of time manpower and equipment than sound judgement, IMHO.

If ever there was an occasion where a little common sense could have saved the taxpayer millions, this was it.

The police were well aware of the 'Armaments' at Moat's disposal (they had seen the injuries inflicted by them on one of their own officers) was it really necessary to call in the services of armoured vehicles (from Northern Ireland) helicopters and a battalion of heavily armed 'specialists' to deal with a mentally traumatised man with a 'Pop-gun' ?.

I personally think the whole episode was a shambles, the only justification I can see for the actions taken, was that the police force wished to highlight the enormous expense of such campaigns in order to negate the 'Cuts' promised by their new government.

All the foregoing does NOT mean that I condone in any way the actions of Raoul Moat, I, like most other people, think his actions were horrendous, the difference is, I would like to discover the reasons for them and I think I have.

Would you care to share them, Shnauzer? I'm interested. And now that you think you have discovered the reasons, how would you have used this knowledge to resolve the situation differently? You see, I've identified three issues in your posts: 1) politics, 2) police budget cuts, and 3) Moat's motivation.

Filitsa, I am sure that the reasons for Raoul Moat's actions are quite clearly visible in the previous exchanges in this thread.

I would highlight the fact that the whole scenario (and awful outcome) is the result of the inflexibility of procedures when such situations as these arise (and there have been a few in recent years).

The police forces in the not too distant past in the UK, had the facility and power to use there own initiative and judgement when faced with difficult or unusual events, however, the discretionary rights of the police officers were greatly removed when policing underwent 'Modernization' and since then, the general public's attitude towards them (particularly in what are often described as deprived areas) has changed dramatically IMHO.

As to my views on how the situation should have been handled, 'EASY'.

A couple of properly equipped and trained officers in close communication with Raoul Moat's peers could quietly have resolved the matter perfectly well without the 'Posture of War' adopted by the police.

Moat's Brother indicated his willingness to negotiate his surrender (as did other of his friends) but such a conclusion to the awful incidents that preceded an attempt to reason with the man, would NOT have stirred the public sufficiently to assure them that they were being 'Protected'.

If this 'Protection' is of such paramount importance, how can it be that a man KNOWN to be severely mentally stressed, KNOWN to be a danger to those who had offended him, KNOWN to be subject to the mis-use of a drug (or prescribed or otherwise medications) was allowed to re-enter the exact area of society where the authorities KNEW his problems were and that he was likely to seek revenge ?.

Raoul Moat was aware of his own mental condition, he had applied for help and (although it is said that he did not turn up for treatment ) the authorities that are concerned with 'Public Safety' could quite easily have recognised the potential for violence, they probably DID, but action on such knowledge would not have produced the spectacle we have all been obliged to observe. IMHO.

[Filitsa]

Are you implying that the police and justice system are responsible for Moat's suicide?

[CBBB]

I agree that the Police should not have allowed him to commit suicide, he killed, he had a weapon, they should have shot the bastard!

[Schnauzer]

Are you implying that the police and justice system are responsible for Moat's suicide?

Filitsa, there are many who believe that Moat did NOT commit suicide, one of the reasons for such belief is that the weapon Moat had was loaded with small shot and that it did not kill the police officer who received a full blast to the head at close range.

There was mention of a second weapon earlier in the reports and police were searching for it but apparently never found any such weapon.

There was mention of "Shot or shots" being heard at the scene of Moat's death and many believe that Moat was in fact shot by the police.

However, such is the nature of reporting in situations such as these, there is always bound to be rumour and speculation, this case has had (and is having) it's fair share.

My own view, is that had the authorities taken the complaints Raoul Moat made of police 'Hounding' for a prolonged period a little more seriously (and I make this observation from the information I have read of Moat's own fifty page communication which was made available (less some censored sections) to the general public) perhaps this awful series of incidents may not have taken place.

As to Raoul Moat's mental condition, again there seems to have been a failure in both the treatment (psychiatric) which he asked for (but did not receive) and the help (which he should have been given whilst incarcerated) in tackling his KNOWN problems with the over-indulgence of steroids etc, which presumably led to his incarceration.

I do feel that the older style of policing, where the local police officer was more in touch with the youth (and elders) of the area patrolled, would by it's very presence have recognized and dealt with the issues that culminated in the demise of Raoul Moat.

I do not suppose that the UK will ever see such times again, the authorities ALWAYS seek ways to 'Tighten Up', I personally think (as I have mentioned before) that a little 'Slackening Off' might produce favourable results, unfortunately it would not sell many newspapers.