Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

The articles also states that neither side want to live together. What the article fails to address is the fact the GC's are not allowed to claim their properties and resume their lives because we have Turkey threatening war if we do. The article fails to show that GC's have no gripes about living with TC's in a fair and just democractic nation where power is sheared in one person one vote system.

Downer is a corrupt rich kid that has never grown up and never embraced Australian multiculturalism (try asking those of us who lived under a liberal government with him in the foreign affairs ministry).

[insan]

... as for the negotiated partition of Cyprus; if it suits the interests of the world's dominant political powers which seems like it suits but it's a matter of time to smoothly push it to happen...

Sorry, but I really cannot understand what you are saying there.

Isn't the obvious and simplest conclusion to come to as to why it has taken so long that ...

The two sides (nor any 3rd party) have just never been able to come up with anything that both will agree to?

True but Cyprus problem has never been the priority for dominant political powers of the world for solving it... To the contrary, they got benefited from the on going problem by advancing their interests in Turkey and Greece... even indirectly and partially in Cyprus...

What if the Cyprus problem was one way or another solved long ago... They would work for contributing to the election of pro-American governments and advance their interests in our region... Not only in Cyprus, Turkey and Greece...

What they care about is to advance their interests one way or another for the ultimate goal... WORLD PEACE!

[Viewpoint]

I have always said it is the only option and what we deserve, its just a matter of time and realisation I arrived at this point just after the referendum when I realized we would never unite as neither side really want this.

[Get Real!]

I have always said it is the only option and what we deserve,

You don't want to know what you deserve...

[Acikgoz]

Nikitas: negotiated, is when you discuss and work to agree.
On your numbers of what the %ages should be, going by the Prio reports, TC and GC privately owned land relative to the total privately owned land is 18%-36% and 61%-81% respectively.
The negotiated part comes in when you realise there is no movement and therefore compromises need to be discussed.
There is a trade-off between land and autonomy. So TCs get less than their current 36%, say they get 26% (or 20% - basically don't get caught up on the number), what would they want for that? or From the other side, what would GCs be willing to give in autonomy for 10%+ (not factoring in bases, buffer zone etc.) Basically both sides can get what they want and pretty much reset the relationship where political focus is substituted with economic and social attention.
I've simply watched the pro-unification players consistently lose ground since 2004. It would be healthy to allow new dialogue into the discussion as we are all going nowhere fast.

One other note, Nikitas

Preciesly how has Cyprus had a "destructive" effect on EU-Turkey relations?

The reason placed on the vetos is the freedom of trade withmember states. The opening of the Turkish ports to RoC has only been held up by the intense lobbying efforts of the RoC not to allow for direct trade with north Cyprus. Lots more can be added obviously, but please let's not throw the blame elsewhere as per usual Cypriot politics.

GR: I guess Gasman answered it, but to place a more blunt point on it. The UN resolutions are man made and as such open to political bias eg. it is illegal to kill yet in a war governments pay people to kill. Getting hung up on a point of UN res 361 is one of the reasons for the current intransigence. GCs have political leverage via 361, TCs have physical leverage via Turkey, both know the constitution they signed up for has been corrupted = only way out requires a paradigm shift.

Pyrop: I've often said, holistic settlement is so difficult to achieve, put on the table other options and perhaps piecemeal issues can be resolved. Each resolved issue means one less issue to fight over, without resolution you cannot have trust.

Humanist: You argue for the physical proximity of living together rather than the emotional proximity of living together.

Gasman: Respect for being able to view and articulate the current from a dual perspective as opposed to the stubborn as a mule age old arguments.

I don't believe much will change via the EU. What I do fear is that over time the situation remains static, and it will be even less resolvable for the satisfaction of parties in the future - if we are not already there.

[Pyrpolizer]

This started as a thread about 'negotiated partition' RoC and 'TRNC'

It seems to have turned into a thread about Cyprus vs Turkey.

... as for the negotiated partition of Cyprus; if it suits the interests of the world's dominant political powers which seems like it suits but it's a matter of time to smoothly push it to happen...

Could you elaborate?


NB. If it took 35 years to agree on nothing, I wonder how many years it will take to agree on nothing again assuming the basis of the talks is "negotiated partition with political equality as per UN resolutions"

35 years? Must be longer since the 50s... but the matter is why it took so long... because of the national interests of all concerned parties...

Greece and Turkey joined NATO against Soviet threat, in return USA was granted large military facilities in Greece and Turkey... Big multi national American and European corporations invested in these countries and influenced the national, regional and global policies of these countries in favour of themselves... All these take a lot of time...

Turkey and Greece weren't the only two countries the Americans and pro-American, European big boys had to deal with....

The political problems in Balkans seems almost been fixed and now they move forward towards Turkey, Armenia, Cyprus, Israel, Palestine, Caucauses...

I don't think the negotiations on partition of Cyprus would last long... Imo, 1 year for negotiation and 5 years for materialization would be enough to partition Cyprus...

It all depends on priorities of the dominant political powers of the world... Who could stop or slow down them in the last 60 years?

The collapse of the ex-soviet union is over my friend. You are right in seeing both military and financial objectives in that.

The problem today however is not Soviet union, it is CHINA, which is ALREADY in the process of subordinating the whole Westrern world financially.
The so called International Crisis will never go, the whole west will collapse soon, just look around you, the western world already produces almost nothing...

Cyprus is not important in this game, nobody cares, all the multinational companies care for is to move their bussiness to China.
Partitioned or not partitioned, staying the same or divided will not change one iota in this new game.

[SKI-preo]

I have always said it is the only option and what we deserve, its just a matter of time and realisation I arrived at this point just after the referendum when I realized we would never unite as neither side really want this.

Deserve? you are saying 900 women deserved to be raped, 6000 civilians deserved to be killed, 200,000 deserved to be ethnically cleansed by naplam scorched earth. You support war crimes.Do you actually realise this? Your "viewpoint" is hate filled and fanatical.

Most of the refugees who live in exile were not even allowed to vote and then it was two separate referenda based along racist ethnic lines without universal sufferage.