Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mikiko]

Azinas seemed to suffer from artirosclerosis as his talk was very naive . I also noticed the SOFT policies of Makarios which made the coup inevitable .

The will of the majority was reflected by Makarios who wanted independence and not ENOSIS and not by Grivas who was labeled as a Terrorist even by Glafkos Clerides Once when he commited murders.

[denizaksulu]

On CYBC tonight, on Irene Haralambidou's programme there were new insghts about EOKA B' and specifically their funding.

Four people who were in key positions in the Tactical Reserve Force, the commaner Pantazis, high ranking officers Papakostas, Tsangaris and Andreas Azinas (who had been a minister if I remember rightly) recalled the conflict with EOKA B in the early 1970s..

Tsangaris who said that after 1974 he spent some years in USA and had contacts with ranking US official who had served in Cyprus, stated that EOKA B funds came from the Turkish intelligence service via Greek shipowners. Tsangaris named shipowner Potamianos and a man called Kosmas Iliadis as the go between. This much, Tsangaris said, was known to US agents in Cyprus and they confirmed it to him in America.

This is a new twist and explains a lot. As the former commander of the Tactical Rserve Force said, EOKA B brought the Coup which brought in Turkey. Looking at it from this point of view then the source of funds is self explanatory.

Are the statements by the above mentioned ex EOKA-B members to be taken seriously? Will/can these allegations ever be confirmed by the Ergenekon trials in Turkey; or is it just another half-baked idea to put yet more blame on Turkey rather than EOKA-B and the Greek Junta of the times with regards to the CyProb?

The whole thing is worthy of a new adventure novel by Tom Clancy and his mob.

Politics is indeed a dirty game.

[Nikitas]

Deniz, the people speaking to CYBC were NOT EOKA B men, they were former officers of the Tactical Reserve Force set up to fight EOKA B'. Their testimony is valuable because it gives the other side of the story.

As Mikiko points out above, Makarios showed a soft approach to the 1970-1974 insurgency. I would call it a failure to uphold the nation status of Cyprus, but that is my opinion, not historical fact.

The statements seem to corroborate what was said in the parliamentary debate about Cyprus which took place in Greece some years ago. The Junta was the first government to abandon the policy of union and in 1968 entered into an agreement for double union which was unacceptable to Cypriots and could only be imposed by force. The end goal was to abolish the RoC. A game which has been taken up and hotly pursued by Turkey ever since then.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz, the people speaking to CYBC were NOT EOKA B men, they were former officers of the Tactical Reserve Force set up to fight EOKA B'. Their testimony is valuable because it gives the other side of the story.

As Mikiko points out above, Makarios showed a soft approach to the 1970-1974 insurgency. I would call it a failure to uphold the nation status of Cyprus, but that is my opinion, not historical fact.

The statements seem to corroborate what was said in the parliamentary debate about Cyprus which took place in Greece some years ago. The Junta was the first government to abandon the policy of union and in 1968 entered into an agreement for double union which was unacceptable to Cypriots and could only be imposed by force. The end goal was to abolish the RoC. A game which has been taken up and hotly pursued by Turkey ever since then.

OK, so the TRF was part of the NG? Naturally I have never heard of these twists and turns, but my questions still remain. It seems nothing is ever in black and white. If true..............hucking fell. If not.....c'mon Tom Clancy.

Thanks anyway.

[Bananiot]

There was a time when we sincerely believed that every fire that erupted in Troodos or any other sun baked part of Cyprus, was started by secret agents of Turkey.

I did not see the program but, I would need hard evidence to accept the allegation that Turkey funded EOKA B'. Simplistic answers may be sweet to the ears of naive G Cypriots but I think the time has come for Cypriots to learn to comprehend the complexities of this world.

[Nikitas]

Deniz,

The TRF was more like an additional police force, staffed by people who were proven Makarios supoprters or at least anti Junta, anti Grivas and anti Enosis. Their numbers were small, about 500 men, but they were more heavily armed than the police, better trained and highly motivated. They had the capability and opportunity to deal with EOKA B but Makarios repeatedley nixed plans by the TRF command to radically deal with the problem.

Bananiot- the people who made these statements in the broadcast seemed to be neither fantasy stricken or in pursuit of some doubtful fame. All are retired and Azinas looked in ill health. And in any case, Tsangaris was not putting forth his opinion, but evidence he uncovered in the course of his police duties. We do not have to believe it.

As for having a simplistic approach, is it not just as simplistic to believe that the only ones responsible for the situation today are the Cypriots and no one else.

[Bananiot]

No Nikitas, we were willing subjects and those from the outside that induced events that could have been potentially detrimental, were successful in the sense that they could exploit certain sects of the Cypriot political scene.

I think that Makarios should not still be a sacred cow and it is high time we started looking critically at the role he played. Those that lived under his robes are not the most valid people to talk about Makarios. The view that his responsibilities stop at the point that he did not punish those EOKA B' members arrested and did not heed the advice to smash the organisation is also very simplistic, because most of the EOKA B' members and certainly the hierarchy, were his comrades and close associates, just a few years ago. Financial matters creep into this too, and one will find that many EOKA B" members and supporters lost out when the loot was divided in 1960. How better is it to express your disgust by making your cause to be a national one. A principled one.

[Piratis]

Piratis, I was quoting an article from Eurasia Critic. Perhaps you should contact them and point out the flaws in their thinking.

When you repeat nonsense in a way that you indicate your agreement then you are just as responsible for what you quote as the original author.

Whenever I read this stuff about Cyprus being at one with Greece, it is always being spouted by Cypriots.

I don't find Greeks on Greek Forums or Greek website articles crying out for Cyprus to become part of Greece. Quite the opposite in fact.

It puts me in mind of a spurned spouse who keeps begging their ex partner to come back, even after they've remarried and moved on!

Do you have any links to pressure groups in Greece calling for unification with Cyprus? Or any petitions set up by Greeks calling for the same? I do mean Greeks in GREECE. Not wannabee Greeks from the GC Diaspora outside Cyprus.

I am talking about the 1950s, when the Cypriot people were fighting against the British Colonialists for freedom for Cyprus as it happened with all other Greek islands.

I will give you the links that you want that show the 100% support of the mainland Greeks for the enosis cause in the 50s but only if you first agree that after I show you the facts (something extremely easy for me to do) you will admit that you are totally ignorant and know nothing about the history of Cyprus, and agree never to post again in this forum. Do we have a deal?

Do you seriously claim that enosis didn't happen because Greece didn't want it? You are really more naive than I thought. Open your eyes my friend. Enosis didn't happen because the UK and Turkey didn't allow it to happen. If it was not for UK and Turkey Cyprus today would be just like every other Greek island without any "Cyprus Problem". Turkey and UK are solely responsible for what happened to Cyprus. Remove Turkey and UK from Cyprus and the Cyprus problem will be solved right away. The Turkish minority by itself (without the backing from Turkey and UK) is not able to create any major problems to Cyprus.

[Piratis]

And to me, it begs the question why, if so many GCs yearn only to be part of Greece and considered 'Greek', why the hell did they not MOVE TO GREECE in large numbers - instead of to the UK and the US (countries those same GCs profess to detest and BLAME for a lot of their troubles?)

They seem very odd choices for them to make their permanent homes in - as odd to me as choosing to live in Turkey (the other country they blame for their troubles).

The question is the same for you: Why did you come to Cyprus when it is evident that you don't like Cypriots?

The fact is that you moved to Cyprus because of the weather, the sea etc, not because you agree with the foreign policy of the Cypriot government. Similarly the Cypriots that moved to UK moved there for financial reasons, not because they agree with the foreign policy of that country. The UK is a much richer country (since they have been exploiting the world for several decades) and this is why immigrants move there. Or maybe you thought that immigrants choose the countries they moved to based on the foreign policy of those countries?

[Malapapa]

And to me, it begs the question why, if so many GCs yearn only to be part of Greece and considered 'Greek', why the hell did they not MOVE TO GREECE in large numbers - instead of to the UK and the US (countries those same GCs profess to detest and BLAME for a lot of their troubles?)

They seem very odd choices for them to make their permanent homes in - as odd to me as choosing to live in Turkey (the other country they blame for their troubles).

The question is the same for you: Why did you come to Cyprus when it is evident that you don't like Cypriots?

The fact is that you moved to Cyprus because of the weather, the sea etc, not because you agree with the foreign policy of the Cypriot government. Similarly the Cypriots that moved to UK moved there for financial reasons, not because they agree with the foreign policy of that country. The UK is a much richer country (since they have been exploiting the world for several decades) and this is why immigrants move there. Or maybe you thought that immigrants choose the countries they moved to based on the foreign policy of those countries?

My folks came to the UK for the wonderful weather. And the glorious beaches. And the delicious fish and chips.