Cyprus-Forum.com

[KYPROS-EINAI-ELLHNIKH]

TMT actions:
PEO member Fazil Onder, killed in 1958
reporters Hikmet and Gurkan, publishers of Cumhuriyet, killed in 1962
member of AKEL Dervis Ali Kavazoglu, killed in 1966

I am aware of these events, as I am aware of the (many more) EOKA murders of GC 'moderates'. I am not saying there is no evidence that TMT ever used violence against TC - what I am saying is there is no evidence they did so with the specific aim of making TC flee their homes (in large and significant numbers).

Also Erolz do you remember the acts of Agent Provocateur that the TMT committed and that sparked up massive violence against GC's so there was retaliation? Denktash admitted once in an interview he had been part of it. Jail him for LIFE!

[erolz]

From what I have seen TCs moved into enclaves encouraged/advised/ordered/threatened by TMT/Turkey and certainly re-enforced in part by violance from the GC side as well.

Again I do not think this is an interpretation that is acurate based on the evidence we have to date. I do not disagree with the overall idea - that both TMT/T orders and violence and GC violence played a part in creating so mant TC refugees. I just dispute the idea that the former was the 'main' reason and the later was a 'secondary' reason. I have explained why I hold these views here and in other threads in the past so will not go over them yet again

However it is clear that GC leadership opposed in principle this move into enclaves. So it is wrong to say that GC forced TC into enclaves.

Yes it is true that the GC leadership opposed the creation of the enclaves. However it is also true imo that they either sanctioned or decided to take no action against the use of GC violence against TC in the persuit of using such violence to cow and force the TC to accept GC political objectives (like unilateraly forcing change to the consitution against the will of the TC community and too their disadvantage).

[magikthrill]

I find it weird that GC are trying to pursuade TC what the actual motives behind abandoning or not returning to their homes were.

so you are saying if the story does not fit in the greater scheme of things then why bother mentioning it?

[erolz]

Also Erolz do you remember the acts of Agent Provocateur that the TMT committed and that sparked up massive violence against GC's so there was retaliation? Denktash admitted once in an interview he had been part of it. Jail him for LIFE!

I am aware and accept and do not deny these acts by some TC just as I am aware and accept and do not deny similar acts by some GC.

As to Denktashs' admission that he was actively involved in such 'agent provocature' actions I do not know of any such admission? I know of interviews where he admits to this having happened (TC extermists planting bombs that were then blamed on gc) and have even digitised, re encoded and made avilaible such to user of this forum via the net - but I do not personally know of him admitting to have done such or order such himself.

I also note that there have been such admission by GC of such acts and strong evidence presented as to who the guilty GC are in this regard. Will you / are you also calling for them to be jailed for life?

[magikthrill]

erol i think its best if the user is ignored completely. he is not worth anytones times to be replied too.

[erolz]

erol i think its best if the user is ignored completely. he is not worth anytones times to be replied too.

I guess I am taking the 'European' approach of trying to encourage modification in their behaviour by applying a consisten set of principles (as far as I am able too) . As far as they make posts that are within the rules of the forum I will respond to them. As far as they do not I will deal with such posts as they occur in the sections that I have such ability and role to do so. As far as them being a poster that has previously been banned and is subverting this ban by using a new user id, that is a judgment for the admin to make and act on and not myself.

Appologies for the 'off topic' post.

[MicAtCyp]

Fact No 1:Out of 120K TCs living in Cyprus 25K fled their homes in the period around 1963-67
Fact No 2:Later on the majority returned
Fact No 3:The vast majority of those TCs who fled their homes were from very specific villages like Kofinou, Kokkina etc.Those villages were armed by TMT in an effort to create military ramparts & regional enclaves.Grivas as head of the National Guard had no other choice than attack and destroy those nuclei.An example can be found here: (first post)
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus2936.html
Fact No 4:The Nicosia enclave was pre-planned, created and organised by Kucuk well before there was any need for the TC to go into enclaves. In fact from day 1 after the establishment of RoC in 1960.
Fact No 5: The first incident of bi-communal killing was done by TCs from 1958. (massacre at Kontemenos village)
Fact No 6:The TCs were the first who imported whole ships of armaments to be used against the other community in 1959 (ceasing of Denis? ship)
Fact No 7: From 1960-1962 the GCs were not organised militarily for action against the TCs contrary to the TCs who were ready, and continued to built up.

[Main_Source]

How much you wanna bet no TC will reply to that.

[Viewpoint]

Fact No 1:Out of 120K TCs living in Cyprus 25K fled their homes in the period around 1963-67
Fact No 2:Later on the majority returned
Fact No 3:The vast majority of those TCs who fled their homes were from very specific villages like Kofinou, Kokkina etc.Those villages were armed by TMT in an effort to create military ramparts & regional enclaves.Grivas as head of the National Guard had no other choice than attack and destroy those nuclei.An example can be found here: (first post)
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus2936.html
Fact No 4:The Nicosia enclave was pre-planned, created and organised by Kucuk well before there was any need for the TC to go into enclaves. In fact from day 1 after the establishment of RoC in 1960.
Fact No 5: The first incident of bi-communal killing was done by TCs from 1958. (massacre at Kontemenos village)
Fact No 6:The TCs were the first who imported whole ships of armaments to be used against the other community in 1959 (ceasing of Denis? ship)
Fact No 7: From 1960-1962 the GCs were not organised militarily for action against the TCs contrary to the TCs who were ready, and continued to built up.

The oracle has spoken, so he must be right, end of story guys Turkish Cypriots planned and did everything to themselves to perform partition, so says the oracle therefore we must all believe

[garbitsch]

Sorry but I don't even give a penny to what Mic said!!! It's like G.Cs had no other option but reply the attacks initiated by T.Cs. Where is the enosis dream, where is the G.C idea to use RoC as a step for achieving the union with Greece? Sorry Mic, but you are still posting biased historical so called facts.