The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


TC refugees and leaving gov split from where did TC live

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby erolz » Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:51 pm

fi wrote:TMT actions:
PEO member Fazil Onder, killed in 1958
reporters Hikmet and Gurkan, publishers of Cumhuriyet, killed in 1962
member of AKEL Dervis Ali Kavazoglu, killed in 1966


I am aware of these events, as I am aware of the (many more) EOKA murders of GC 'moderates'. I am not saying there is no evidence that TMT ever used violence against TC - what I am saying is there is no evidence they did so with the specific aim of making TC flee their homes (in large and significant numbers).
erolz
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Girne / Kyrenia

Postby Main_Source » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:02 pm

Thats rubbish Erolz.

These Turkish Cypriots murdered by the TMT were probably local well known figures in the TC community. Therefore, to murder and make an example of these people WILL make people think twice about disobeying TMT orders. Its common sense.

Cant you accept that the TMT was keeping the violance alive just as much as any GC para's, the same violance that made TC apparently want to flee there homes and create a separate state...which is wat Kucuk and TMT wanted all along.
Main_Source
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:11 pm

Postby fi » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:15 pm

What I want to say is that GC and TC common people's fate was being predetermined by few extremists on both sides.

From many accounts that I've heard from people living in that period many GC-TC were very close friends living side by side for many years.

This move of TC into enclaves certainly determined what happened next.
fi
Member
Member
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:08 am

Postby Main_Source » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:17 pm

These extremeist groups have long gone...but many TC use these examples as a silly excuse for us to suffer and not rightfully have what is ours.
Main_Source
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:11 pm

Postby fi » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:28 pm

I am quoting below a very small part of the report by United Nations Mediator on Cyprus Galo Plaza (26 March 1965):

"The Turkish-Cypriot Community
71. They claimed that the recent events had proved that the various contractual and actual guarantees provided in the past were insufficient to meet the needs of their community for security. Additional and more effective guarantees must therefore be secured.
72. The additional guarantees, they maintained, could best be obtained by providing a geographical basis for the state of affairs created by the Zurich and London Agreements. In short, they wished to be physically separated from the Greek community. Their first inclination had been to seek this separation through the outright physical partitioning of Cyprus between the Turkish and Greek nations, of which in their opinion the Turkish and Greek communities constituted an extension. However, "considering that this would not be willingly agreed to by Greek and Cypriot-Greeks", they modified this concept to that of creating a federal State over the physical separation of the two communities.
73. Their proposal envisaged a compulsory exchange of population in order to bring about a state of affairs in which each community would occupy a separate part of the island. The dividing line was in fact suggested: to run from the village of Yalia on the north-western coast through the towns of Nicosia in the centre, and Famagusta in the east. The zone lying north of this line was claimed by the Turkish-Cypriot community; it is said to have an area of about 1,084 square miles or 38 per cent of the total area of the Republic. An exchange of about 10,000 Greek families for about the same number of Turkish families was contemplated.
74. Each of the two separate communal areas would enjoy self-government in all matters falling outside federal affairs. Each could have cultural and economic relations directly with Greece or Turkey as the case might be. Each area could also enter into international agreements with Greece or Turkey as the case might be to regulate "relations of neighbourhood such as the provision of a certain special pass system" between that area and Greece or Turkey.

150. It is essential to be clear what this proposal implies. To refer to it simply as "federation" is to oversimplify the matter. What is involved is not merely to establish a federal form of government but also to secure the geographical separation of the two communities. The establishment of a federal regime requires a territorial basis, and this basis does not exist. In an earlier part of this report, I explained the island-wide intermingling in normal times of the Greek-Cypriot and Turkish-Cypriot populations. The events since December 1963 have not basically altered this characteristic; even the enclaves where numbers of Turkish-Cypriots concentrated following the troubles are widely scattered over the island, while thousands of other Turkish-Cypriots have remained in mixed villages.


153. In the first place, the separation of the communities is utterly unacceptable to the majority community of Cyprus and on present indications could not be imposed except by force. The opposition to it is in part political: Greek-Cypriots see in the proposal a first step towards the partitioning of the island, although this is vigorously denied by the Turkish-Cypriot leadership as well as by the Turkish Government. But to my mind the objections raised also on economic, social and moral grounds are in themselves serious obstacles to the proposition. It would seem to require a compulsory movement of the people concerned - many thousands on both sides - contrary to all the enlightened principles of the present time, including those set forth in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Moreover, this would be a compulsory movement of a kind that would seem likely to impose severe hardships on the families involved as it would be impossible for all of them, or perhaps even the majority of them, to obtain an exchange of land or occupation suited to their needs or experience; it would entail also an economic and social disruption which would be such as to render neither part of the country viable. Such a state of affairs would constitute a lasting, if not permanent, cause of discontent and unrest.
"
fi
Member
Member
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:08 am

Postby Filitsa » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:29 pm

fi wrote:What I want to say is that GC and TC common people's fate was being predetermined by few extremists on both sides.

From many accounts that I've heard from people living in that period many GC-TC were very close friends living side by side for many years.

This move of TC into enclaves certainly determined what happened next.



I agree.

Few of my relatives lived in mixed villages, but those who did all testify adamantly that they had congenial relations with their TC neighbors.
User avatar
Filitsa
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:26 am

Postby erolz » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:34 pm

Main_Source wrote:Thats rubbish Erolz.

These Turkish Cypriots murdered by the TMT were probably local well known figures in the TC community. Therefore, to murder and make an example of these people WILL make people think twice about disobeying TMT orders. Its common sense.


I do not deny this. However if we talk about about the reasons that caused TC to flee their homes, and the role violence played in that for ordinary TC, then to me it is clear that the amount of violence comitted dirtectly related to the amount of fear created. The amount of GC violence against TC vs TC violence aginst TC is at least two orders of magnitude different. So I accept that some TC (or part of the decsions for some TC) was related to a fear of disobeying TMT 'orders' but this was a materialy less significant factor than that of GC violence and fear of it - and different in the degree of least two orders of magnitude that the violence itself was different.

Main_Source wrote:Cant you accept that the TMT was keeping the violance alive just as much as any GC para's, the same violance that made TC apparently want to flee there homes and create a separate state...which is wat Kucuk and TMT wanted all along.


I can and have accpeted many many times that TC extremists were playing their part in keeping the violence alive and as a means to further their poltical aims, just as there were (more) GC extermists doing so and doing so with all the 'advantages' of larger numbers and controlling the government.
erolz
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Girne / Kyrenia

Postby fi » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:40 pm

From what I have seen TCs moved into enclaves encouraged/advised/ordered/threatened by TMT/Turkey and certainly re-enforced in part by violance from the GC side as well.

However it is clear that GC leadership opposed in principle this move into enclaves. So it is wrong to say that GC forced TC into enclaves.
fi
Member
Member
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:08 am

Postby erolz » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:41 pm

Main_Source wrote:These extremeist groups have long gone...but many TC use these examples as a silly excuse for us to suffer and not rightfully have what is ours.


I do not say that the same extremists exist in the RoC today in the same numbers and with the same degree of political control they had then (though it is true than some of the same indivduals exist today and some continue to have consider political power and influence in the RoC today).

What I (and other TC I believe) are saying is that if you wish to truely understand TC today and our fears and concerns today and where those fears and concerns come from, then ignoring, dimissing or disotrting the realites of the past that have formed and shaped our fears today is of no use at all and actively a detriment to finding a solution.
erolz
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Girne / Kyrenia

Postby fi » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:47 pm

I do agree that extremists still exist on both sides today. Altough certainly a lot fewer and with much less power. Also lets not forget that what happened then happened in a democracy that just had been formed and of course had no experience means to fight these extremists, in a so different era.
fi
Member
Member
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:08 am

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest