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and the jewish knifes are getting sharper

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and the jewish knifes are getting sharper

Postby boomerang » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:56 pm

Neo-cons lead charge against Turkey
By Jim Lobe

WASHINGTON - As the right-wing leadership of the organized United States Jewish community defends Israel against international condemnation for its deadly seizure of a flotilla bearing humanitarian supplies for Gaza, a familiar clutch of neo-conservative hawks is going on the offensive against what is seen as the flotilla's chief defender, Turkey.

Outraged by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's repeated denunciations of the May 31 Israeli raid, as well as his co-sponsorship with Brazil of an agreement with Iran designed to promote renewed negotiations with the West on Tehran's nuclear program, some neo-conservatives are even demanding that the US try to expel Ankara from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) as one of several suggested actions aimed



at punishing Erdogan's AKP (Justice and Development Party) government.

"Turkey, as a member of NATO, is privy to intelligence information having to do with terrorism and with Iran," noted the latest report by the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), a hard-line neo-conservative group that promotes US-Israeli military ties and has historically cultivated close ties to Turkey's military, as well.

"If Turkey finds its best friends to be Iran, Hamas, Syria and Brazil (look for Venezuela in the future) the security of that information (and Western technology in weapons in Turkey's arsenal) is suspect. The United States should seriously consider suspending military cooperation with Turkey as a prelude to removing it from the organization," suggested the group.

Its board of advisers includes many prominent champions of the 2003 Iraq invasion, including former Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Perle, former Central Intelligence Agency director James Woolsey, and former United Nations ambassador John Bolton.

Neo-conservative publications, notably the Wall Street Journal, the Weekly Standard and the National Review, have also been firing away at the AKP government since the raid.

"Turkey now represents a major element in the global panorama of radical Islam," declared the Standard's Stephen Schwartz, while Daniel Pipes, the controversial director of the Likudist Middle East Forum, echoed JINSA's call for ousting Ankara from NATO and urged Washington to provide direct support for Turkey's opposition parties in an article published by the National Review Online.

The Journal has been running editorials and op-eds attacking Turkey on virtually a daily basis since the raid, accusing its government, among other things, of having "an ingrained hostility toward the Jewish state, remarkable sympathies for nearby radical regimes, and an attitude toward extremist groups like the IHH [Insani Yardim Vakfi - the Islamist group that sponsored the flotilla's flagship, the Mavi Marmara] that borders on complicity."

On Monday, it ran an op-ed by long-time hawk Victor Davis Hanson that labeled the IHH "a terrorist organization with ties to al-Qaeda", while an earlier op-ed, by Robert Pollock, its editorial features editor, called Erdogan and his Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu "demagogues appealing to the worst elements in their own country and the broader Middle East".

Meanwhile, in an op-ed published by The Forward, a Jewish weekly, Michael Rubin, a Perle protege at the American Enterprise Institute, accused Turkey of having "become a conduit for the smuggling of weapons to Israel's enemies", notably Lebanon's Hezbollah.

The onslaught is ironic both because of the neo-conservatives' long cultivation of Turkey and their avowed support for promoting democratic governance - of which they have singled out Turkey for special praise - in the Muslim world.

Neo-conservatives were among the most important promoters of the military alliance between Israel and Turkey that began to take shape in the late 1980s and consolidated by the mid-1990s.

In fact, Perle and another of his proteges, former under secretary of defense for policy Douglas Feith, worked as paid lobbyists for Turkey during that period, in major part to persuade the powerful "Israel Lobby" on Capitol Hill to promote Ankara's interests on Capitol Hill.

In 1996, the two men participated in a task force chaired by Perle that proposed to incoming Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that he work with Turkey and Jordan to remove Iraq's Saddam Hussein from power as part of an alliance designed to transform the strategic balance in the Middle East permanently in favor of Israel.

But the Turkey promoted by Perle and his fellow-neo-cons in the 1980s and 1990s was one that was dominated by a secular business and political elite carefully monitored by an all-powerful military institution that mounted three coup d'etats between 1960 and 1980 and intervened a fourth time in 1997 to oust an Islamist-led government.

Despite its close links to both the US and Israel, however, the Turkish military badly disappointed the neo-cons in the run-up to Washington's invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

Instead of insisting that the civilian government at the time grant US requests to use Turkish territory as a major launching pad into northern Iraq, the armed forces decided to defer to overwhelming parliamentary and public opposition to the invasion.

"I think for whatever reason they did not play the strong leadership role on that issue that we would have expected," complained then-deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz, a long-time Perle friend and colleague who, despite his lavish praise of Turkey as a model Muslim democracy, headed repeated efforts by the George W Bush administration to persuade Turkey's national security council - where the military's voice was dominant - to effectively overrule its parliament.

Erdogan, who became prime minister just a week before the invasion and whose political and economic reforms have been widely praised in the West, at first sought good relations with Israel. As late as 2007, he arranged for Shimon Peres to become the first Israeli president to address the Turkish parliament.

By then, however, many neo-cons had become concerned about Erdogan's efforts to weaken the military's power, his warm reception of a top Hamas leader in 2005, criticism of Israel's military campaign against Hezbollah in 2006 and rapprochement with Syria.

When the military not so subtly threatened to intervene against Erdogan and the AKP in 2007, some neo-cons, notably Perle, suggested that the US should not try to discourage it. Others, including the Standard's Schwartz and Pipes, encouraged it as the lesser of two evils, even as the Journal defended the AKP as "more democratic than the secularists".

Since Erdogan's furious denunciation of Israel, and Peres personally, at the Davos World Economic Forum of Israel's Cast Lead operation in Gaza in January 2009, however, neo-cons of virtually all stripes - including those, like the Journal's editorial writers, who have praised the AKP as a democratizing force - have turned against Ankara. And the flotilla incident, combined with Erdogan's perceived defense of Iran's nuclear program, has raised their animus to new heights.

"A combination of Islamist rule, resentment at exclusion from Europe and a neo-Ottomanist ideology that envisions Turkey as a great power in the Middle East have made Turkey a state that is often plainly hostile not only to Israel but to American aims and interests," wrote Eliot Cohen, professor at Johns Hopkins University, in a Journal op-ed Monday.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/LF11Ak02.html


either akp is going down or turkey is going down coz the jews ain't likely to forget easily with out some kind of a pay back...
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Postby Cap » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:50 pm

Haven't the Israeli's started training the PKK guerrillas... so I've heard.
can anyone substantiate that, cos if its true, Turkey's gonna be spitting hell fire.
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Postby Nikitas » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:22 pm

Remember what happened to the Shah when he got too big for his boots?
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Postby insan » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:52 pm

Erdoğan goes, Mabus comes... there's no way out...
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Postby B25 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:31 pm

Nikitas wrote:Remember what happened to the Shah when he got too big for his boots?


Also not forgetting Saddam Hussain and their failed attempt on Bin laden.
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Postby bigOz » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:48 pm

So what? You post quotes from American neo nazi supporters whilst ignoring other news such as:
QUOTE from Time time.com dated 12 june;

Addressing Turkey's parliament on his first visit to a Muslim nation as President, Barack Obama reached out to followers of Islam everywhere. "Let me say this as clearly as I can: the United States is not and will never be at war with Islam," he said to applause. "In fact, our partnership with the Muslim world is critical in rolling back a fringe ideology that people of all faiths reject." Obama said the U.S. has been enriched by Muslim Americans, including members of his own family.

His comments came as a new Washington Post/ABC News poll shows that while 81% of Americans think it's "very important" or "somewhat important" to improve relations with the Muslim world, 48% have an unfavorable opinion of Islam. (See pictures of Obama's overseas trip.)

It's no coincidence that Obama chose Turkey to cap his first trip abroad. Turkey is a significant player in foreign policy issues that matter to the U.S. — concerning Iraq, Iran, Israel and the Palestinians, and Afghanistan. It also combines a mainly Muslim population with a secular democracy. Washington's close ties here exemplify the type of relationship Obama hopes to build with the rest of the Islamic world. "Some people have asked me if I chose to continue my travels to Ankara and Istanbul to send a message to the world," Obama said. "And my answer is simple: Evet — yes."

The President spoke strongly in favor of Turkey's effort to join the European Union — an issue that has divided the bloc, with heavyweight members like France and Germany firmly opposed to the prospect of a large, mainly Muslim member state. "The United States strongly supports Turkey's bid to become a member of the European Union," Obama said. "We speak not as members of the E.U., but as close friends of Turkey and Europe."


So, you were saying...? :roll:
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Postby IMPOSTALIEDUS » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:50 pm

Cap wrote:Haven't the Israeli's started training the PKK guerrillas... so I've heard.
can anyone substantiate that, cos if its true, Turkey's gonna be spitting hell fire.
There are a number of countries who would like to see the kurds independent not that they are interested in the kurds , but more about breaking turkey into a smaller state,with less power. And in helping the kurds gain the north of iraq also,which they would control with america and israel, this would mean less dependancy on Turkey.The ultimate goal being the compleat circle of iran , by uae puppet goverment, saudi same, iraq,same,and then possibly kurdistan, subject to boundary ,turkey ,,and afghanistan again puppet goverment and finally pakistan again friend of america, and once all this is in place , the invasion of iran , to rid them of all them WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRUCTION, ,
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Postby boomerang » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:45 am

bigOz wrote:So what? You post quotes from American neo nazi supporters whilst ignoring other news such as:
QUOTE from Time time.com dated 12 june;

Addressing Turkey's parliament on his first visit to a Muslim nation as President, Barack Obama reached out to followers of Islam everywhere. "Let me say this as clearly as I can: the United States is not and will never be at war with Islam," he said to applause. "In fact, our partnership with the Muslim world is critical in rolling back a fringe ideology that people of all faiths reject." Obama said the U.S. has been enriched by Muslim Americans, including members of his own family.

His comments came as a new Washington Post/ABC News poll shows that while 81% of Americans think it's "very important" or "somewhat important" to improve relations with the Muslim world, 48% have an unfavorable opinion of Islam. (See pictures of Obama's overseas trip.)

It's no coincidence that Obama chose Turkey to cap his first trip abroad. Turkey is a significant player in foreign policy issues that matter to the U.S. — concerning Iraq, Iran, Israel and the Palestinians, and Afghanistan. It also combines a mainly Muslim population with a secular democracy. Washington's close ties here exemplify the type of relationship Obama hopes to build with the rest of the Islamic world. "Some people have asked me if I chose to continue my travels to Ankara and Istanbul to send a message to the world," Obama said. "And my answer is simple: Evet — yes."

The President spoke strongly in favor of Turkey's effort to join the European Union — an issue that has divided the bloc, with heavyweight members like France and Germany firmly opposed to the prospect of a large, mainly Muslim member state. "The United States strongly supports Turkey's bid to become a member of the European Union," Obama said. "We speak not as members of the E.U., but as close friends of Turkey and Europe."


So, you were saying...? :roll:


not me saying but...take notice...

Lawmakers warn Turkey of payback over Iran, Israel policiesBy the CNN Wire StaffJune 16, 2010 -- Updated 1826 GMT (0226 HKT)
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
U.S. House members accuse Turkey of turning against Israel
Lawmakers warn they might back Armenian genocide resolution opposed by Turkey
House members angered by Turkey's ties with Iran, backing for flotilla that tried to break Israel blockade of Gaza
Washington (CNN) -- Supporters of Israel in the U.S. House warned Turkey on Wednesday they might support a resolution recognizing the Armenian genocide that so far has failed to come up for a vote by the full chamber.

Turkey opposes the resolution that would bring formal U.S. recognition of the 1915-1923 campaign by Turkey's Ottoman Empire against the Armenian population of eastern Anatolia region as genocide.

The resolution passed the House Foreign Affairs Committee by a single vote in March, but so far has not come up for debate by the full House. Turkey called home its U.S. ambassador to protest the House committee vote.

However, House members who have been unwilling to support the resolution now say they might change their minds due to Turkey's pro-Iranian moves and support for the recent effort to break Israel's blockade of Gaza.

"There will be a cost if Turkey stays on its present heading of growing closer to Iran and more antagonistic to the state of Israel," Rep. Mike Pence, R-Indiana, told a news conference. "It will bear upon my view and I believe the view of many members of Congress on the state of the relationship with Turkey."

In particular, Pence, said, "They need to understand going forward there's going to be a cost regarding the Armenian resolution."

Rep. Peter King, R-New York, echoed Pence in saying he was reconsidering his past opposition to taking up the Armenian genocide resolution.

King said he and "many" other House members believe there was an Armenian genocide, but have been reluctant to support the resolution due to the strategic U.S. relationship with Turkey.

"I think that's about to change," King said.

Turkey provided support to the recent flotilla of six ships that was stopped by the Israeli military from bringing aid to Gaza. Nine people -- all Turkish citizens -- died when Israeli commandos boarded the ships and violence ensued.

In response, Turkey has condemned Israel and led calls for an international investigation of the incident.

Turkey also has stepped up relations with Iran, joining Brazil recently in brokering an agreement with Iran intended to head off new U.S. sanctions over Iran's nuclear program.

The U.S. questioned the agreement and proceeded to win U.N. Security Council approval for the additional sanctions.

Pence and others told the news conference that such steps by Turkey must be opposed by the United States to demonstrate unwavering U.S. support for Israel.

Rep. Eliot Engel, D-New York, called the actions by Turkey "disgraceful" because Turkey is a NATO ally, while Rep. Shelley Berkley, D-Nevada, said she would actively oppose Turkey's bid to become part of the European Union.

"They don't deserve that recognition and they don't deserve to be a part of the EU until they start behaving more like European nations and a whole lot less like Iran," Berkley said.


http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/16/us.turkey.armenia/



just remember politics are not static, but dynamic...

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Postby Acikgoz » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:08 am

Iran and Iraq? These are the comparisons? Why not throw in North Korea? Stupid or what? Dictatorships as a base starting point, all with limited geo-political presence, closed societies.

Israel is not that stupid to go all out re. Turkey nor is the US.

You know which side has the public sympathy when you look at the responses from the various groups, the left is in sympathy for Palestinian cause and now the middle has certainly gotten on board. Neo-cons have power but are far from able to press their agendas given the US experience in Iraq (no WMD!) currently major problems in Afganistan etc. As EU austerity moves are afoot, it is only a matter of time the US is going to be in need of considering when to stop the stimulus and start paring down their spending.

It's as though so many people that comment here are not living in the real world.

The hate of Turkey means the loss of reason, who is most ill served by that insanity?
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Postby boomerang » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:18 am

The Mussolini of the Middle East Stabs America in the Back
By Joel J. Sprayregen
The Middle East has its Hitler wannabe in Iranian President Ahmadinejad. His nuclear weaponization program has accelerated over eighteen months while Obama's "engagement" is being rebuffed with contemptuous defiance from Tehran. Like Hitler in Mein Kampf, Ahmadinejad has made clear his belief that the Jews of Israel should be annihilated.


Every Hitler needs his Mussolini. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan -- a man I know well -- is enthusiastically volunteering for that role.


The Hitler analogy should be viewed in terms of the late 1930s rather than the wartime 1940s. By the time Hitler attacked Poland in September 1939, he had contemptuously resisted limitations on German rearmament and achieved his territorial aims in the infamous delivery of Czechoslovakia at Munich. He accomplished this while England slept -- in John Kennedy's famous phrase -- without firing a shot.


What does this have to do with Ahmadinejad? The Iranians know that once they possess nuclear weapons, they will have achieved hegemony over the Middle East, with all its energy resources, without firing a shot. As the evidence accumulates that Obama lacks the will to take action to stop the Iranian quest, the countries of the Middle East are compelled to come to terms with the reality that the United States will not use its power to defend its own interests and will settle for trying to "contain" a nuclear Iran. In the pitiless sunlight of the Middle East, reality is harshly defined. A nuclear-armed Iran means that the United States is a big loser. And that Iran is a decisive winner.



No Middle Eastern leader grasps this reality with more eager opportunism than the Turkish prime minister. A serious question is emerging as to whether our government understands this dynamic and its grave consequences. My conversations with State Department officials reveal at best only dim understanding. President Obama, delivering his first address to a foreign parliament in Ankara in April 2006, praised Turkey as a "true partner." In the first giddy flush of Obamamania, this may have been understandable hyperbole even though Erdogan had stabbed the U.S. in the back as long ago as 2003 by denying our forces entry into northern Iraq. But self-delusion in the White House as to critical U.S. interests is no longer rational, as increasing numbers of foreign policy experts -- many of them Obama supporters -- recognize that Turkey has decisively exited its alliance with the West.


Tom Friedman observes in the N.Y. Times: "Maybe President Obama should invite [Erdogan] for a weekend at Camp David to clear the air before U.S.-Turkey relations get where they're going -- over a cliff." German editor Joseph Joffe writes in the Financial Times: "The real game is about dominance at the expense of America, which U.S. President Barack Obama has yet to grasp." Our most astute analyst of the Middle East, Professor Fouad Ajami, a Lebanese Shi'a, writes in the Wall Street Journal that "Turkey courts Iran and turns its back on its old American alliance." And listen to the ultra-liberal Washington Post pose the pertinent question to the White House:


Erdogan's crude attempt to exploit the Gaza flotilla incident comes only a few weeks after he joined Brazil's president in linking arms with Ahmadinejad, whom he is assisting in an effort to block new U.N. sanctions. What's remarkable about his turn toward extremism is that it comes after more than a year of assiduous courting by the Obama administration, which, among other things, has overlooked his antidemocratic behavior at home, helped him combat the Kurdish PKK and catered to Turkish sensitivities about the Armenian genocide. ... Will Mr. Erdogan's behavior be without cost?



Erdogan has allied with all the genocidal factions in the region -- Iran, Syria, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Sudan (whose President al-Bashir was invited to Turkey while a fugitive from indictment by the International Court of Criminal Justice). This appears comparable to what Mussolini did in 1936 when he allied with Hitler, believing that the German Chancellor would become master of Europe. Like Mussolini, Erdogan commands a people who can be proud of their historic civilization. Turkey is a NATO ally, and Italy was an American ally in World War 1. Italy had understandable grievances against its former allies, and Turks are entitled to resent the oafish behavior of European politicians regarding Turkish membership in the EU. Erdogen is emulating Mussolini in undermining his country's democratic traditions. Turkish friends warn me that our communications are surveiled and they are subject to government retaliation. Friedman writes, "I've never visited a democracy where more people I interviewed asked me not to name them for fear of retribution by Erdogan's circle."



Like Mussolini, Erdogan is an outsized orator. It took several meetings before I realized that Erdogan's counter-factual eruptions (in a September, 2009, meeting at New York's Plaza hotel, he wildly inflated Gaza casualty statistics and likened Hamas terrorists to "boys throwing stones") are not spontaneous, but carefully calculated to inflame his Islamist electoral base. Erdogan's oratorical demagoguery is escalating as he faces a significant electoral challenge from a secular party. In 1998, a Turkish court sentenced Erdogan, then a candidate, to ten months in prison for inciting religious hatred; he served four months. The lesson Erdogan learned from this was to use Turkish law to intimidate and punish opponents. Kasimpasha, the Istanbul district where he was raised, is known for crude and blunt talk.


Kemal Koprulu, scion of an eminent Turkish family and founder of a think-tank for promotion of civil society, warned in a recent article in the Brown Journal of World Affairs of "unhealthy trends of polarization and intolerance combined with anti-Westernism" that are "becoming a chronic problem and wearing down the Turkish public." Pro-western Turks cringe with embarrassment over Erdogan's rhetorical excesses as democratic Italians did over Mussolin's. Skillful Turkish diplomats over the course of many years built friendships to counter the influence of Turkey's traditional detractors (Armenian-Americans and Greek-Americans). Erdogan has systematically shattered these friendships in a few months. A group of retired Turkish diplomats issued a measured statement last week warning of damage from Erdogan's "adventurous foreign policy." Turkish diplomats and a cabinet under-secretary with whom I've recently met try to argue that Turkey can help America by improving relations with Muslim neighbors. But it's obvious that Turkey undermines American interests by opposing Iran sanctions, hailing Hamas as a legitimate resistance movement, and holding joint military exercises with Syria.



Our country has huge interests in common with Turkey, including our Incirlik airbase and sharing NATO intelligence. Turkey played a key role in NATO in the Cold War and later in Kosovo and Bosnia, but today maintains only a non-combat force in Afghanistan. Congress is beginning to understand that Turkish alliance with Iran and Syria is inconsistent -- to say the least -- with NATO membership.


Franklin Roosevelt was reluctant to challenge Mussolini's alliance with Hitler. But seventy years ago this month, when Mussolini invaded France, Roosevelt memorably said, "The hand that held the dagger has struck it into the back of its neighbor." Turkey has already struck several dagger blows against the U.S. It's time the White House addresses this with clarity and determination equal to the gravity of the reality that Turkey is now an ally of Iran and not of the United States.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/the_mussolini_of_the_middle_ea.html



akie, this has nothing to do with reason, but rather domination/control...i think you missed the point...big time

if reason was the source then explain the turkish policy preaching reconciliation to neighbours, while she fights at home...makes much sense huh?...
all i can say, the chosen turkey path is a one way step to doomsville
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