Cyprus-Forum.com

[vaughanwilliams]

Why aren't people trying to find out WHO instructs the police/airport officials and others NOT to implement the laws, rules and regs?

Because there are at least two parts to government, law and policy. Just because something has been legislated does not mean that it has to be implemented and enforced. The degree to which legislation is implemented and enforced is a matter of government policy. This is true is Cyprus as it is the world over.

The governments of the RoC since 2003 (as well the EU and the UN) have no wish to enforce legislation which hampers crossing of the green line. In any case, it is arguable that to do so would be counter-productive to RoC interests.

(I would have thought that the strategy of attempting to isolate in different ways Turkish Cypriots for the last fifty years has singularly failed and has in fact hugely contributed to (a) the division of Cyprus, (b) pushed Turkish Cypriots into ever closer dependency on Turkey, (c) legitimised Turkish continued intervention, and (d) contributed to the relative weakening of Cypriots vis-a-vis Turks in northern Cyprus.

The RoC governments have never actually tried to pull the rug from under Turkey by demonstrating that it has the interests of Cypriots (Turkish) at heart. Punishing through isolation Turkish Cypriots for being fearful of Greek Cypriot actions instead of attempting to re-assure and amend past mistakes has gifted the north and many Turkish Cypriots to Turkey. Further talk of isolation and 'close the borders' will just extinguish once and for all any possibility of reconciliation. However I have long suspected that many in this forum have absolutely no interest in reconciliation, just in making other people's lives miserable).

Extremely good points well made.
It is clear from the stance of the GC gov and some of the GC posters on CF that although they talk the talk, they don't walk the walk.

[Kikapu]

Why aren't people trying to find out WHO instructs the police/airport officials and others NOT to implement the laws, rules and regs?

Because there are at least two parts to government, law and policy. Just because something has been legislated does not mean that it has to be implemented and enforced. The degree to which legislation is implemented and enforced is a matter of government policy. This is true is Cyprus as it is the world over.

The governments of the RoC since 2003 (as well the EU and the UN) have no wish to enforce legislation which hampers crossing of the green line. In any case, it is arguable that to do so would be counter-productive to RoC interests.

(I would have thought that the strategy of attempting to isolate in different ways Turkish Cypriots for the last fifty years has singularly failed and has in fact hugely contributed to (a) the division of Cyprus, (b) pushed Turkish Cypriots into ever closer dependency on Turkey, (c) legitimised Turkish continued intervention, and (d) contributed to the relative weakening of Cypriots vis-a-vis Turks in northern Cyprus.

The RoC governments have never actually tried to pull the rug from under Turkey by demonstrating that it has the interests of Cypriots (Turkish) at heart. Punishing through isolation Turkish Cypriots for being fearful of Greek Cypriot actions instead of attempting to re-assure and amend past mistakes has gifted the north and many Turkish Cypriots to Turkey. Further talk of isolation and 'close the borders' will just extinguish once and for all any possibility of reconciliation. However I have long suspected that many in this forum have absolutely no interest in reconciliation, just in making other people's lives miserable).

Extremely good points well made.
It is clear from the stance of the GC gov and some of the GC posters on CF that although they talk the talk, they don't walk the walk.

"Sakla Samani, Gelir Zamani".!!

Sometimes timing is everything, specially when it comes to politics in Cyprus. One thing you should never count on however, is that everything will remain the same.!

Time Does Not Stand Still.!!

[Jerry]

Why aren't people trying to find out WHO instructs the police/airport officials and others NOT to implement the laws, rules and regs?

Because there are at least two parts to government, law and policy. Just because something has been legislated does not mean that it has to be implemented and enforced. The degree to which legislation is implemented and enforced is a matter of government policy. This is true is Cyprus as it is the world over.

The governments of the RoC since 2003 (as well the EU and the UN) have no wish to enforce legislation which hampers crossing of the green line. In any case, it is arguable that to do so would be counter-productive to RoC interests.

(I would have thought that the strategy of attempting to isolate in different ways Turkish Cypriots for the last fifty years has singularly failed and has in fact hugely contributed to (a) the division of Cyprus, (b) pushed Turkish Cypriots into ever closer dependency on Turkey, (c) legitimised Turkish continued intervention, and (d) contributed to the relative weakening of Cypriots vis-a-vis Turks in northern Cyprus.

The RoC governments have never actually tried to pull the rug from under Turkey by demonstrating that it has the interests of Cypriots (Turkish) at heart. Punishing through isolation Turkish Cypriots for being fearful of Greek Cypriot actions instead of attempting to re-assure and amend past mistakes has gifted the north and many Turkish Cypriots to Turkey. Further talk of isolation and 'close the borders' will just extinguish once and for all any possibility of reconciliation. However I have long suspected that many in this forum have absolutely no interest in reconciliation, just in making other people's lives miserable).

You are confusing two issues Copperline. Read through the posts again, they are, in the main, anti carpetbagger not anti TC.

I do agree, however, that the ROC could do even more than simply help out the TCs when they have problems with electricity generation, bottled gas supplies and free medical care.

[humanist]

to the carpetbaggers of the North:

these people are arrested as thieves and will be tried accordingly. I believe imprisonment will be part of the consequences. Neither the government or the public condone this behaviour in the RoC's free areas. Whereas in the occupied areas of the North otherwise known by the occupiers trnc this is a known practice and supported by the ruling illegal regime and the people it recognises as citizens or residents.

There, is the difference ........ now shut the hell up and get out of our country please

[vaughanwilliams]

to the carpetbaggers of the North:

these people are arrested as thieves and will be tried accordingly. I believe imprisonment will be part of the consequences. Neither the government or the public condone this behaviour in the RoC's free areas. Whereas in the occupied areas of the North otherwise known by the occupiers trnc this is a known practice and supported by the ruling illegal regime and the people it recognises as citizens or residents.

There, is the difference ........ now shut the hell up and get out of our country please

I do believe that you just went off on a tangent...

I'll have a pint of what you're drinking.

[CopperLine]

Why aren't people trying to find out WHO instructs the police/airport officials and others NOT to implement the laws, rules and regs?

Because there are at least two parts to government, law and policy. Just because something has been legislated does not mean that it has to be implemented and enforced. The degree to which legislation is implemented and enforced is a matter of government policy. This is true is Cyprus as it is the world over.

The governments of the RoC since 2003 (as well the EU and the UN) have no wish to enforce legislation which hampers crossing of the green line. In any case, it is arguable that to do so would be counter-productive to RoC interests.

(I would have thought that the strategy of attempting to isolate in different ways Turkish Cypriots for the last fifty years has singularly failed and has in fact hugely contributed to (a) the division of Cyprus, (b) pushed Turkish Cypriots into ever closer dependency on Turkey, (c) legitimised Turkish continued intervention, and (d) contributed to the relative weakening of Cypriots vis-a-vis Turks in northern Cyprus.

The RoC governments have never actually tried to pull the rug from under Turkey by demonstrating that it has the interests of Cypriots (Turkish) at heart. Punishing through isolation Turkish Cypriots for being fearful of Greek Cypriot actions instead of attempting to re-assure and amend past mistakes has gifted the north and many Turkish Cypriots to Turkey. Further talk of isolation and 'close the borders' will just extinguish once and for all any possibility of reconciliation. However I have long suspected that many in this forum have absolutely no interest in reconciliation, just in making other people's lives miserable).

You are confusing two issues Copperline. Read through the posts again, they are, in the main, anti carpetbagger not anti TC.

I do agree, however, that the ROC could do even more than simply help out the TCs when they have problems with electricity generation, bottled gas supplies and free medical care.

Speaking in legal terms, if 'carpetbaggers' (as you poetically describe them) have bought property in the north on false title whereas in fact the rightful owner has been usurped, then this would normally be a civil matter, some kind of civil tort. Unless, that is, the RoC has specifically legislated this to be a criminal law matter. It is practically impossible (and illegal) in an internal EU border for border control to detain subjects of civil litigation. If however the issue is one of criminal law then border control could possibly act (and legally). So the nub of the issue are these : (i) which piece of RoC legislation (if indeed there is one) made purchase of property on false title a criminal offence and (ii) which RoC courts have actually heard cases with named 'carpetbaggers' and for which then border control can actually look out for those identified in criminal law. Can you help idnetify either (i) and/or (ii) Jerry

[vaughanwilliams]

Why aren't people trying to find out WHO instructs the police/airport officials and others NOT to implement the laws, rules and regs?

Because there are at least two parts to government, law and policy. Just because something has been legislated does not mean that it has to be implemented and enforced. The degree to which legislation is implemented and enforced is a matter of government policy. This is true is Cyprus as it is the world over.

The governments of the RoC since 2003 (as well the EU and the UN) have no wish to enforce legislation which hampers crossing of the green line. In any case, it is arguable that to do so would be counter-productive to RoC interests.

(I would have thought that the strategy of attempting to isolate in different ways Turkish Cypriots for the last fifty years has singularly failed and has in fact hugely contributed to (a) the division of Cyprus, (b) pushed Turkish Cypriots into ever closer dependency on Turkey, (c) legitimised Turkish continued intervention, and (d) contributed to the relative weakening of Cypriots vis-a-vis Turks in northern Cyprus.

The RoC governments have never actually tried to pull the rug from under Turkey by demonstrating that it has the interests of Cypriots (Turkish) at heart. Punishing through isolation Turkish Cypriots for being fearful of Greek Cypriot actions instead of attempting to re-assure and amend past mistakes has gifted the north and many Turkish Cypriots to Turkey. Further talk of isolation and 'close the borders' will just extinguish once and for all any possibility of reconciliation. However I have long suspected that many in this forum have absolutely no interest in reconciliation, just in making other people's lives miserable).

You are confusing two issues Copperline. Read through the posts again, they are, in the main, anti carpetbagger not anti TC.

I do agree, however, that the ROC could do even more than simply help out the TCs when they have problems with electricity generation, bottled gas supplies and free medical care.

Speaking in legal terms, if 'carpetbaggers' (as you poetically describe them) have bought property in the north on false title whereas in fact the rightful owner has been usurped, then this would normally be a civil matter, some kind of civil tort. Unless, that is, the RoC has specifically legislated this to be a criminal law matter. It is practically impossible (and illegal) in an internal EU border for border control to detain subjects of civil litigation. If however the issue is one of criminal law then border control could possibly act (and legally). So the nub of the issue are these : (i) which piece of RoC legislation (if indeed there is one) made purchase of property on false title a criminal offence and (ii) which RoC courts have actually heard cases with named 'carpetbaggers' and for which then border control can actually look out for those identified in criminal law. Can you help idnetify either (i) and/or (ii) Jerry

But isn't an internal EU border one between 2 EU states? The green line is a crossing point not an internal border. If it is an internal border then that implies that TRNC is not part of RoC.

[Jerry]

Why aren't people trying to find out WHO instructs the police/airport officials and others NOT to implement the laws, rules and regs?

Because there are at least two parts to government, law and policy. Just because something has been legislated does not mean that it has to be implemented and enforced. The degree to which legislation is implemented and enforced is a matter of government policy. This is true is Cyprus as it is the world over.

The governments of the RoC since 2003 (as well the EU and the UN) have no wish to enforce legislation which hampers crossing of the green line. In any case, it is arguable that to do so would be counter-productive to RoC interests.

(I would have thought that the strategy of attempting to isolate in different ways Turkish Cypriots for the last fifty years has singularly failed and has in fact hugely contributed to (a) the division of Cyprus, (b) pushed Turkish Cypriots into ever closer dependency on Turkey, (c) legitimised Turkish continued intervention, and (d) contributed to the relative weakening of Cypriots vis-a-vis Turks in northern Cyprus.

The RoC governments have never actually tried to pull the rug from under Turkey by demonstrating that it has the interests of Cypriots (Turkish) at heart. Punishing through isolation Turkish Cypriots for being fearful of Greek Cypriot actions instead of attempting to re-assure and amend past mistakes has gifted the north and many Turkish Cypriots to Turkey. Further talk of isolation and 'close the borders' will just extinguish once and for all any possibility of reconciliation. However I have long suspected that many in this forum have absolutely no interest in reconciliation, just in making other people's lives miserable).

You are confusing two issues Copperline. Read through the posts again, they are, in the main, anti carpetbagger not anti TC.

I do agree, however, that the ROC could do even more than simply help out the TCs when they have problems with electricity generation, bottled gas supplies and free medical care.

Speaking in legal terms, if 'carpetbaggers' (as you poetically describe them) have bought property in the north on false title whereas in fact the rightful owner has been usurped, then this would normally be a civil matter, some kind of civil tort. Unless, that is, the RoC has specifically legislated this to be a criminal law matter. It is practically impossible (and illegal) in an internal EU border for border control to detain subjects of civil litigation. If however the issue is one of criminal law then border control could possibly act (and legally). So the nub of the issue are these : (i) which piece of RoC legislation (if indeed there is one) made purchase of property on false title a criminal offence and (ii) which RoC courts have actually heard cases with named 'carpetbaggers' and for which then border control can actually look out for those identified in criminal law. Can you help idnetify either (i) and/or (ii) Jerry

Page two on this thread, if you want an ROC source I'm afraid I can't help since I don't read Greek.



On 20 October 2006 a criminal code amendment relating to property came into effect. Under the amendment, buying, selling, renting, promoting or mortgaging a property without the permission of the owner (the person whose ownership is registered with the Republic of Cyprus Land Registry, including Greek Cypriots displaced from northern Cyprus in 1974), is a criminal offence. This also applies to agreeing to sell, buy or rent a property without the owner’s permission.

The maximum prison sentence is 7 years. Furthermore, the amendment to the law states that any attempt to undertake such a transaction is a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence of up to 5 years. This law is not retrospective, so will not criminalise transactions that took place before 20 October 2006.

Documents relating to the purchase of property in northern Cyprus will be presumed by the Cypriot authorities to relate to the illegal transfer of Greek Cypriot property and may be subject to confiscation when crossing the Green Line. Anyone in possession of these documents may be asked to make a statement to the Cypriot authorities and may face criminal proceedings under the 20 October 2006 amendment.

The full implications of this legislation are not yet clear. Any enquiries about its scope should be made to the Republic of Cyprus High Commission in London(tel: 020 7499 8272).

British and other foreign nationals who have entered Cyprus through the north are considered by the Government of the Republic of Cyprus to have entered Cyprus through an illegal port of entry. The Government of the Republic of Cyprus reserves the right to fine EU (including British) citizens for illegal entry if they cross into the south. In practice, their current policy is not to do so.

[vaughanwilliams]

Why aren't people trying to find out WHO instructs the police/airport officials and others NOT to implement the laws, rules and regs?

Because there are at least two parts to government, law and policy. Just because something has been legislated does not mean that it has to be implemented and enforced. The degree to which legislation is implemented and enforced is a matter of government policy. This is true is Cyprus as it is the world over.

The governments of the RoC since 2003 (as well the EU and the UN) have no wish to enforce legislation which hampers crossing of the green line. In any case, it is arguable that to do so would be counter-productive to RoC interests.

(I would have thought that the strategy of attempting to isolate in different ways Turkish Cypriots for the last fifty years has singularly failed and has in fact hugely contributed to (a) the division of Cyprus, (b) pushed Turkish Cypriots into ever closer dependency on Turkey, (c) legitimised Turkish continued intervention, and (d) contributed to the relative weakening of Cypriots vis-a-vis Turks in northern Cyprus.

The RoC governments have never actually tried to pull the rug from under Turkey by demonstrating that it has the interests of Cypriots (Turkish) at heart. Punishing through isolation Turkish Cypriots for being fearful of Greek Cypriot actions instead of attempting to re-assure and amend past mistakes has gifted the north and many Turkish Cypriots to Turkey. Further talk of isolation and 'close the borders' will just extinguish once and for all any possibility of reconciliation. However I have long suspected that many in this forum have absolutely no interest in reconciliation, just in making other people's lives miserable).

You are confusing two issues Copperline. Read through the posts again, they are, in the main, anti carpetbagger not anti TC.

I do agree, however, that the ROC could do even more than simply help out the TCs when they have problems with electricity generation, bottled gas supplies and free medical care.

Speaking in legal terms, if 'carpetbaggers' (as you poetically describe them) have bought property in the north on false title whereas in fact the rightful owner has been usurped, then this would normally be a civil matter, some kind of civil tort. Unless, that is, the RoC has specifically legislated this to be a criminal law matter. It is practically impossible (and illegal) in an internal EU border for border control to detain subjects of civil litigation. If however the issue is one of criminal law then border control could possibly act (and legally). So the nub of the issue are these : (i) which piece of RoC legislation (if indeed there is one) made purchase of property on false title a criminal offence and (ii) which RoC courts have actually heard cases with named 'carpetbaggers' and for which then border control can actually look out for those identified in criminal law. Can you help idnetify either (i) and/or (ii) Jerry

Page two on this thread, if you want an ROC source I'm afraid I can't help since I don't read Greek.



On 20 October 2006 a criminal code amendment relating to property came into effect. Under the amendment, buying, selling, renting, promoting or mortgaging a property without the permission of the owner (the person whose ownership is registered with the Republic of Cyprus Land Registry, including Greek Cypriots displaced from northern Cyprus in 1974), is a criminal offence. This also applies to agreeing to sell, buy or rent a property without the owner’s permission.

The maximum prison sentence is 7 years. Furthermore, the amendment to the law states that any attempt to undertake such a transaction is a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence of up to 5 years. This law is not retrospective, so will not criminalise transactions that took place before 20 October 2006.

Documents relating to the purchase of property in northern Cyprus will be presumed by the Cypriot authorities to relate to the illegal transfer of Greek Cypriot property and may be subject to confiscation when crossing the Green Line. Anyone in possession of these documents may be asked to make a statement to the Cypriot authorities and may face criminal proceedings under the 20 October 2006 amendment.

The full implications of this legislation are not yet clear. Any enquiries about its scope should be made to the Republic of Cyprus High Commission in London(tel: 020 7499 8272).

British and other foreign nationals who have entered Cyprus through the north are considered by the Government of the Republic of Cyprus to have entered Cyprus through an illegal port of entry. The Government of the Republic of Cyprus reserves the right to fine EU (including British) citizens for illegal entry if they cross into the south. In practice, their current policy is not to do so.

"In practice, their current policy is not to do so."

Why? If they are sure they could get away with it and that it would deter others, why?

[Jerry]

"In practice, their current policy is not to do so."

Why? If they are sure they could get away with it and that it would deter others, why?

It really does not take much imagination to see that the ROC does not want to do anything that may prejudice the talks with the "trnc"