Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Bananiot, I really do not understand your approach to the solution. Do you think there should be a territorial adjustment that brings the proportions of territory within reasonable percentages? If this were done and a large number of displaced persons can return to their ancestral lands under GC control a large part of the properties issue would be solved automatically.

Eroglu has already nixed this idea, refusing to countenance any "dislocation" of TCs. He will not discuss the settler issue, he wants the property issue to be settled via compensation and nothing else. In short he wants the territorial status quo with a bit of partnership in the south.

In view of the above why is it only Christofias who is being undiplomatic?

[Bananiot]

The territorial arrangement encompassed by the Annan Plan was quite good. Certain people reckon that a large part of Karpasia would have been thrown in too, had we asked for it. At the time, the Turkish side agreed to give back a substantial part of the occupied lands and Christofias should have started negotiations from here instead from scratch. All I am saying is that he facilitated the other side and in effect he made a grave error, just to appease his government partners who are now abandoning ship just the same.

[bigOz]

Bananiot, I agree with you totally on this subject! But there is now even a bigger problem making it almost impossible for any TC leader to give up even an inch of the land up North (besides Varosha perhaps - and even that is being challenged as VAKIF land by some).

When the Annan plan was accepted, those participating in the referendum represented a good proportion of TCs, who had equally left homes and land in the South after the 1974 population exchange.

Thanks to GC persisitance in asking for / expecting more and refusing the Annan plan, problem they face now presents itself in the form of mainland Turkish settlers (mainly ethnic Kurds) who have become the majority in this part of the island! That will dictate the outcome of the next referendum that will involve giving up large chunks of land or any major population change as a big "NO!".

I think a lot of attacks on Turkish civilians in South by a minority of idiots over the recent years may also have changed the views of many who said "yes" in the first referendum. Overall, if I were a GC, I would not hold my breath for any return of land...

Furthermore, we have become financially and economically dependent on Turkiye - again thanks to economic embargoes imposed by our fellow countryman's efforts. As much as I argued in favor of one Cyprus and one Cypriot Nation during all my youth and subsequent years, I AM SO FED UP OF THE COST OF LIVING AND ECONOMIC PRESSURES ON OUR SIDE, I have now become a firm believer that North Cyprus becoming an official part of the Republic of Turkiye would be the best thing that can happen to TCs!

WHY? you might ask; Because I shall be buying all my food and clothing at a third of the price I currently pay, I would be making mobile and land line calls at half the price of what I currently pay, I would use Internet and sattelite TV services at half cost, I would not have to pay 150 Euros surcharge every time I travel on a ferry with my car, I will not pay 4 times as much for my car parts, I will benefit from very cheap internal fights... etc. etc.

If I wait for an agreement under the circumstances, I shall definitely die starving!

[Gasman]

Big Oz, you sum up what I've been told by some TCs - they are just totally fed up waiting for things to change. Fed up with being promised things will change.

[B25]

The territorial arrangement encompassed by the Annan Plan was quite good. Certain people reckon that a large part of Karpasia would have been thrown in too, had we asked for it. At the time, the Turkish side agreed to give back a substantial part of the occupied lands and Christofias should have started negotiations from here instead from scratch. All I am saying is that he facilitated the other side and in effect he made a grave error, just to appease his government partners who are now abandoning ship just the same.

Well I wouldn't expect any other reply from you on this. The Ankara Plan was diabolical, totally one sided towards the Turks, completely unfair and a total shambles.

And you have the nerve to say the 'Territorial Arrangements .... were quite good' Are to completely mad re?

There was nothing in that plan for us, we were asked to give up Cyprus on a plate to the turks and you still have the audacity to support it. Seems they must be putting something in your coffee at you little treacherous meetings each Saturday.

That disgraceful and useless, unworkable pile of shit was rejected by the good citizens of this country, yet you bash us conmstantly for its rejection. Banana you should hold you head in shame for your constant putdowns over this concocted, deceitful, racist and down right criminal plan.

hade re pou jiame!

[bigOz]

The territorial arrangement encompassed by the Annan Plan was quite good. Certain people reckon that a large part of Karpasia would have been thrown in too, had we asked for it. At the time, the Turkish side agreed to give back a substantial part of the occupied lands and Christofias should have started negotiations from here instead from scratch. All I am saying is that he facilitated the other side and in effect he made a grave error, just to appease his government partners who are now abandoning ship just the same.

Well I wouldn't expect any other reply from you on this. The Ankara Plan was diabolical, totally one sided towards the Turks, completely unfair and a total shambles.

And you have the nerve to say the 'Territorial Arrangements .... were quite good' Are to completely mad re?

There was nothing in that plan for us, we were asked to give up Cyprus on a plate to the turks and you still have the audacity to support it. Seems they must be putting something in your coffee at you little treacherous meetings each Saturday.

That disgraceful and useless, unworkable pile of shit was rejected by the good citizens of this country, yet you bash us conmstantly for its rejection. Banana you should hold you head in shame for your constant putdowns over this concocted, deceitful, racist and down right criminal plan.

hade re pou jiame!

#
Are you off your fucking head??? Are we talking about the same plan or what? So the TCs who accepted the plan are the "bad citizens of this country" are they?

Hade re bello! You are the only racist in this thread! That so called worthless pile of shit was the best you were ever going to get. Now you won't get Jack-shit!

BTW. Your hypocritical signature line should read:

I have been banished from my country by the invasion of Turkish army thanks to the suicidal actions of fanatic EOKA-B extremists and Greek military junta (both of which you sound very much like a supporter of!).

[CopperLine]

On territorial division/allocation

Proposition 1 : Cyprus is divided into two zones proportional to the 'ethnic' make-up of the resident population in 1974.

Proposition 2 : Cyprus is divided into two zones proportional to the 'ethnic' make-up of the resident population today.

Propositions 1 & 2 override the claims of individual claimants to property in respective zones.

Proposition 3 : Individual property claimants have rightful property claims returned to them and then Cyprus is divided into two zones proportional to the ethnic make-up of the resident population of 1974/today.

Proposition 4 : Individual property claimants have rightful property claims returned to them and then Cyprus remains territorially undivided and without zones.

In all but Proposition 4, the key determinant then becomes the correct measure of (a) ethnicity and (b) proportion of the population.

[repulsewarrior]

...in any of these propositions, they require some repopulation. while it recognises the displaced as Individuals, it does not address the nature of their plight, as communities. while a State is Sovereign and in another level of government National Assemblies provide service internally, language, if you will is differentiated by what is provided firstly.
there can be no such thing as an exclusivity which propogates mono-clonal societies. whether it is providing social exchange in a Turkish way or Greek, standards which are Universal are the guage from which Cypriots will measure bicommunally.

...enclaves (and if it is an ugly word call them something else) serve our needs and are fitting. they should spot the island, so that in any case a respective territorial adjustment is made.

[wyoming cowboy]

The territorial arrangement encompassed by the Annan Plan was quite good. Certain people reckon that a large part of Karpasia would have been thrown in too, had we asked for it. At the time, the Turkish side agreed to give back a substantial part of the occupied lands and Christofias should have started negotiations from here instead from scratch. All I am saying is that he facilitated the other side and in effect he made a grave error, just to appease his government partners who are now abandoning ship just the same.

Bannana you must be getting some very good Raki from the occuppied areas for writing such garbage """The territorial arrangement encompassed by the Annan plan was quite good"".....You made a statement without any regard for the thousands of refugees that were forced out of their ancestral homes at gunpoint....Not only that you approve of a plan that would have created an aparteid situation where any and all Gc would be excluded from voicing their opinion in a Tc constituent state....No habeus corpus no business development no Rights.... I understand that some compromises would be needed to reach an agreement and as a refugee iam willing to swallow the bitter pill of compromise, but to take away fundemental human rights and expect to sign and vote yes for such an agreement is ludicrous........

[wyoming cowboy]

The territorial arrangement encompassed by the Annan Plan was quite good. Certain people reckon that a large part of Karpasia would have been thrown in too, had we asked for it. At the time, the Turkish side agreed to give back a substantial part of the occupied lands and Christofias should have started negotiations from here instead from scratch. All I am saying is that he facilitated the other side and in effect he made a grave error, just to appease his government partners who are now abandoning ship just the same.

Well I wouldn't expect any other reply from you on this. The Ankara Plan was diabolical, totally one sided towards the Turks, completely unfair and a total shambles.

And you have the nerve to say the 'Territorial Arrangements .... were quite good' Are to completely mad re?

There was nothing in that plan for us, we were asked to give up Cyprus on a plate to the turks and you still have the audacity to support it. Seems they must be putting something in your coffee at you little treacherous meetings each Saturday.

That disgraceful and useless, unworkable pile of shit was rejected by the good citizens of this country, yet you bash us conmstantly for its rejection. Banana you should hold you head in shame for your constant putdowns over this concocted, deceitful, racist and down right criminal plan.

hade re pou jiame!

#
Are you off your fucking head??? Are we talking about the same plan or what? So the TCs who accepted the plan are the "bad citizens of this country" are they?

Hade re bello! You are the only racist in this thread! That so called worthless pile of shit was the best you were ever going to get. Now you won't get Jack-shit!

BTW. Your hypocritical signature line should read:

I have been banished from my country by the invasion of Turkish army thanks to the suicidal actions of fanatic EOKA-B extremists and Greek military junta (both of which you sound very much like a supporter of!).

The Tc accepted this bad plan probably because it was tilted completely towards them and they were fed up with being occuppied by Turkey. Since the referendum, Turkey realized its mistake and allowed the Green line to be opened, Why not admit that Turkey was keeping you embargoed for all those years....? The vast protests by the Tc back in 2003? were not against the Gc but against Turkey and Denktashes policies....At least give the ROC credit for doing its best to accomodate its citizens TC and Gc.