Cyprus-Forum.com

[B25]

Without going in to the rights and wrongs of our situation, I can quite understand why the international community is totally fed up with us! Does nobody else see this?

I can only imagine...Hell! I'm fed up with us.

I too can understand this!

DT, your politicians are really pathetic. They really do not know what they are doing and are not making decisions in the interests of the RoC.

Right now, I am getting a good dose of TMT propaganda from TV via satellite. Shameful.

I am really embarrassed mate. Almost despondent!

Not a big fan of Your and My politicians mate, if you remember our last chat after an insensitive comment i made about Cypriots abroad I changed my tune. On the back of that these are the politicians that are currently runnin' the show here in Cyprus and the ones that are currently making the decisions you're up here defending or attacking on the cyprob...

So now that we've defined these as OUR politicians, I agree they stink.

Oh and by the way mate, not as if our politicians needed help in f***ing things up but YOUR f***wit idiot of a politician Downer has added a select f***up flavour to this whole process we've never had before.

I really must insist. They are YOUR politicians. Cypriot citizens in Oz are not allowed to vote and we don't have private charters to exercise that right.

Over here, we also have some bad politicians, but even they are no match for your politicians.

The RoC's politicians don't represent me and I for one am unwilling to accept any credit for them.

As for Alexander Downer, there really isn't a great deal he can do for you. He did not create the process under way, and is not allowed to offer any input. He can only oversee the talks, report back to the UN GS, and try to encourage both parties to intensify the process. That is about it I'm afraid.

If you don't like the process, what is being discussed, and/or believe that little progress is being made, then have a go at Christofias who signed you up to these talks and placed the RoC in a difficult position.

And on a personal level, AD accepts that some TC demands are unreasonable and reports accordingly. The man himself is a highly respected politician here. He was one of Australia's big 3. Howard, Costello and Downer was one of the best administrations Australia had seen in a long time other than Fraser himself!

No one can ever criticise that AD was an incompetent polician. FA minister for 12 years mate!

No? what would you call someone who is on Turkeys payroll and pretending to mediate between Turkey and the RoC??

But then again the whole UN thing is a farce anyway, don't really epect much else from AD.

When the UN begins to follow its own charter and take responsibility for this Cyprob charade, then they may be respected, otherwise just another Yankee doodle qwango, jobs for the boys type organisation.

[Paphitis]

I agree that the UN process is a farce! But that is hardly AD's fault.

Secondly, he is not on Turkey's payroll. The guy was a prolific Australian politician.

I do not know the exact details of the disclosed information, but his company, was involved in a hostile corporate take over by a publicly listed US company of an almost bankrupt Turkish company.

Hardly a conflict of interest. If there was a conflict of interest, he would've been sacked!

[Nikitas]

Let us put ourselves in Downer's shoes and we would do the same. Both sides are coming up with impossible demands and in a situation where the goal is a realistic compromise that is not likely to win any friends.

Just yesterday Eroglu said that a territorial adjustment is unlikely because it would cause dislocation, limiting the changes to a property compensation process for which the GCs would provide a substantial amount, so the victims will pay for their damage.

On the other hand the GC side insists on the rights of original land owners to each property when it knows full well that many if not most property owners will not seek actual return of their lands.

The GC side seems to have lost any sense of strategic planning and this is corroborated by the attitude to the territory issue. The whole world would understand a simple proportional demand based on population ratios and the fact that the GC side incorporates by default all the other minorities of Cyprus. A simple map showing the demarcation running along visible landmarks, like the Myrtou Nicosia Famagusta old roads would be instantly understandable to foreigners like Downer and his friends.

[BOF]

good post Nikitas - the voice of reason amongst some of the Hysteria on here.
And Jesus i am actually agreeing with Paphitis on something!!

Every Special Envoy to Cyprus and every secretary General of the UN has been fair game for every wannabe politician on the Greek Cypriot side to hurl abuse and insults
(and some downright lies) at knowing full well that there will be no comeback from them.
from the point of view of a non involved individual i dont envy Downer, a man who speaks his mind and a straight talker (how badly Cyprus needs someone like that) hes damned if he does and hes damned if he doesnt. he will be villified here, but in the real world hes actually a very respected man.
The Cyprob is not of his making, and hes not allowed to intervene or upset insufferable timeframes - but when his report comes out on progress, and it may well point the finger, i for one and i suspect a lot of other people elswhere will accept it as Gospel.
The UN doesnt have an easy job and is hamstrung by outside political influences and voting, and yes it get things wrong...
IF as suspected there is no agreement at the end of 2010 after 2 years of talks and discussions then the UN should consider stopping any involvement and leave Cyprus altogether.

[Acikgoz]

There was too much poker playing crap from the start, since February 1963 to be precise. After 1974 when the invasion brought about a radical change we had more of the same.

One way to break the crap chains is to come out publicly with a take it or leave it offer on the main points- a percentage of territory we deem acceptable, an outline of the government system, and other main areas. Going public obliges the other side to state its case. These nebulous phrases like "lasting viable solution" mean nothing.

To force the pragma out, unleash the dogma...Love the idea!

Unfortunately it still leaves leadership to bold a statement, sadly no expectations in the near future. Do you see this as a catalyst for change? As the comments stated - GC direct trade threat vs isolation of TC not enough to pressure stance changes. IF UN mission ends, is that enough pressure to change ingrained political partisan tactics? Personally I think not.

[Bananiot]

So, now the new fashion is to blame our politicians for all our shortcomings! Let us see. So far we have blamed the US, GB, Greece, Turkey of course, all the UN representatives that dealt with the Cyprob (some had weaknesses of a personal kind) and the list goes on. Now, it is our politicians! Yesterday, Andros Kyprianou did the patriotic thing. He proposed we should report the UN to the international community!

You people confuse politics with sporting events. Perhaps we should change the manager, or bring referees from abroad because they are holding our team back. The so called "our politicians", are not the most bright in the world, granted. Some are as thick as they come. But the dire situation in which we are now is a direct result of our choices in 2003 - 2004. I do not just mean the Annan plan but more important the way we behaved then when the Turkish Cypriot community and Turkey were ready to make serious compromises but we found ourselves with a leadership that could not see beyond their nose. Papadopoulos, a confirmed rejectionist and a Turk hater (worse than oracle) was put in office by Christofias who wanted us to believe that the man has changed and he convince bananiots that we do not need a solution based on BBF (the only feasible solution) but we can achieve a European solution as soon we became full members of the EU.

Once again, going head on for the desirable, has cost us dearly, but still we do not learn. Come next December we will hurt even more but then, I am quite sure, we will find another scapegoat to blame.

[Get Real!]

Once again, going head on for the desirable, has cost us dearly, but still we do not learn. Come next December we will hurt even more but then, I am quite sure, we will find another scapegoat to blame.

Just keep whipping yourself away Bananiot... it's the only way to climax!

[B25]

Once again, going head on for the desirable, has cost us dearly, but still we do not learn. Come next December we will hurt even more but then, I am quite sure, we will find another scapegoat to blame.

Just keep whipping yourself away Bananiot... it's the only way to climax!

Nice One.

[Bananiot]

Cyril, lets have another one ....

[CopperLine]

So, now the new fashion is to blame our politicians for all our shortcomings! Let us see. So far we have blamed the US, GB, Greece, Turkey of course, all the UN representatives that dealt with the Cyprob (some had weaknesses of a personal kind) and the list goes on. Now, it is our politicians! Yesterday, Andros Kyprianou did the patriotic thing. He proposed we should report the UN to the international community!

You people confuse politics with sporting events. Perhaps we should change the manager, or bring referees from abroad because they are holding our team back. The so called "our politicians", are not the most bright in the world, granted. Some are as thick as they come. But the dire situation in which we are now is a direct result of our choices in 2003 - 2004. I do not just mean the Annan plan but more important the way we behaved then when the Turkish Cypriot community and Turkey were ready to make serious compromises but we found ourselves with a leadership that could not see beyond their nose. Papadopoulos, a confirmed rejectionist and a Turk hater (worse than oracle) was put in office by Christofias who wanted us to believe that the man has changed and he convince bananiots that we do not need a solution based on BBF (the only feasible solution) but we can achieve a European solution as soon we became full members of the EU.

Once again, going head on for the desirable, has cost us dearly, but still we do not learn. Come next December we will hurt even more but then, I am quite sure, we will find another scapegoat to blame.

Agreed, exactly.