Cyprus-Forum.com

[MicAtCyp]

the cyprus conflict site, thanks erolz - will read one day - too many word n not enuf pictures

My picture aint good enuf?? Man it was taken from trnc web site.Make a search there with keyword "harita"=map, and you will verify it. No respect for others labour,no respect, I am very very , will not bother again.

[erolz]

the cyprus conflict site, thanks erolz - will read one day - too many word n not enuf pictures

My picture aint good enuf?? Man it was taken from trnc web site.Make a search there with keyword "harita"=map, and you will verify it. No respect for others labour,no respect, I am very very , will not bother again.

Easy now compadre

The map you presented is fine and and dandy, showing as it does the distribution of polutations at one point in time. However the thread started with the question about the 3% figure that has been and is quoted and where it came from etc.

As has been mnetioned by some TC in the thread this is the alledged figure for how 'compressed' TC became at another point in time (and lets not get into the causes of this sompression and who was to blame or most to blame for it etc etc - that is amply covered elsewhere in the forums ). So there is nothing wrong with your map as I see it (though I have no means to actualy verify its accuracy or not) - it's just that it does not related to the question being asked as I understand it. If yuo have a link to a map showing the distribution of community populations in say the period mid 64 then this would be most welcome and relevant to the discussion at hand (as I see it at least) where ever it came from.

[MicAtCyp]

Easy now compadre

Whats "compadre"??

The map you presented is fine and and dandy, showing as it does the distribution of polutations at one point in time. However the thread started with the question about the 3% figure that has been and is quoted and where it came from etc.

you have not been very careful.My message was not only the picture.It contained text too. I answered clearly that the 3% came from someones imagination. Now if you want me to tell you what imo the 3% propaganda figure refers too, I certainly can. Imo it refers to the area covered by the Nicosia enclave upto kionelli.
Oh, by the way it's not upto us the Gcs to tell what this 3% is.It's upto those who invented it.

So there is nothing wrong with your map as I see it (though I have no means to actualy verify its accuracy or not) - it's just that it does not related to the question being asked as I understand it.

Oh sorry then Erol.You mean the whole thread preassumes that we should agree with the figure, and our only posts permitted should be verifications or evidences for that figure. If this is so, then I do deeply apologise, I will delete all my posts from this thread and leave you alone.Just waiting your confirmation to proceed.

If yuo have a link to a map showing the distribution of community populations in say the period mid 64 then this would be most welcome and relevant to the discussion at hand (as I see it at least) where ever it came from.

Of course I have. But it's from a site you may not like.
Look here:
http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Maps.htm

The map shows the occupied areas only and what a coincidence: It's shows the same areas as the map "harita" downloaded from trnc a long time ago.

[gabaston]

No MaC

your harita was very much apprecited, and i do thank you for it.

i am sorry for not having previously thanked you.

also thanks to fi and svetlana.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[erolz]

Easy now compadre

Whats "compadre"??

It's spanish for friend / companion I think?

you have not been very careful.My message was not only the picture.It contained text too. I answered clearly that the 3% came from someones imagination. Now if you want me to tell you what imo the 3% propaganda figure refers too, I certainly can. Imo it refers to the area covered by the Nicosia enclave upto kionelli.
Oh, by the way it's not upto us the Gcs to tell what this 3% is.It's upto those who invented it.

I never said that the 3% figure was accurate or what it is based on , just that I and other TC guessed that it was in relation to the period in 64 when TC were 'living' in an area much reduced from that shown on the original map. All I was saying is that it seemed to me that your map was not that useful to the discussion about the 3% figure and if it was an accurate figure or not.

Oh sorry then Erol.You mean the whole thread preassumes that we should agree with the figure, and our only posts permitted should be verifications or evidences for that figure. If this is so, then I do deeply apologise, I will delete all my posts from this thread and leave you alone.Just waiting your confirmation to proceed.

Not at all amnd I am a little suprised that you think so? What I was/am saying is that the 3% figure (accurate or not) relates to a specific point in time as far as I can guess and thus showing a picture of the situation in a different point in time and declaring - hah this proves the 3% is rubbish is not a very 'solid' argument as I saw it.

Of course I have. But it's from a site you may not like.
Look here:
http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Maps.htm

The map shows the occupied areas only and what a coincidence: It's shows the same areas as the map "harita" downloaded from trnc a long time ago.

Er these maps , as far as I understand them also do not related to the period in time in question (ie the period in time when TC where compressed into the smallest area in Cyprus that they ever were in a united cyprus) and so to me to also be of little relevance to ths issue of where the TC ever comprssed into 3% of the total land area of Cyprus.

Do you agree that TC went through a period where for whatever reason they became compressed into smaller areas than they previously occupied (prob around mid 64)? If so what % of land area do _you_ think they were compressed into re the alledged 3% that started the thread?

[MicAtCyp]

Heres an estimate Erol. 120K TCs were 18% of population.
I assume they lived in 18% of land.
25K at a time rushed into enclaves.
So there was compression by what 20.8%
So after they rushed in enclves TC lived in 80% of 18%=14.4% of land.

If you use maths you will also verify the 3% refers to the Nicosia-Kionelli enclave

Does my reply make sense?

[-mikkie2-]

After the invasion, 50000 Turkish Cypriots moved north, from areas of Larnaca, Limassol and Paphos and surrounding villages. To say that these people were confined in a geographical area of say, 1.5% (assuming they were approximately half the total TC population) is quite frankly a joke. The 3% figure is the figment of someones overactive imagination.

Around 20% of TC's were affected by the troubles in 63-64. The maths as MicAtCyp has quite rightly stated just don't add up.

[Othellos]

Gabaston

From a study carried out by the land and survey dept. regarding land ownership in Cyprus:

GC property: 59,6 %
TC property: 12,3 %
Armenian / maronite property: 1,4%
State land, roads, forests etc: 26,7%

From a study carried out by the Cyprus Geographical association in cooperation with prof. Richard Patrick:

GC property: 59,2 %
TC property: 12,9 %
Armenian / maronite property: 1,6%
State land, roads, forests etc: 26,3%

The above figures are taken from the "Proposals for a solution to the Cyprus problem" (pp.60-62) by George Karouzis, published in 1976. I am not 100% sure about the exact date the above studies were carried out, but I assume that this happened sometime after 1974 and of course before 1976 when the book was published.

Regards

O.

[erolz]

I do not even know what the basis for the 3% figure is that the original poster asked about. As I could see it it could be a claimed figure for the area that all TC were living in at the height of them having feld their homes or it could be the claimed figure for the area that just the TC refugess ended up in and not all TC at that time. I do not know which if either of these it claims to be. I am not trying to defend this figure just to help the original poster with there quesry 'where does it come from'. If it is the claimed figure for either of these (or something else) it could be right or wrong - I do not know.

Heres an estimate Erol. 120K TCs were 18% of population.
I assume they lived in 18% of land.

Not necessarily the case but ok

25K at a time rushed into enclaves.

What a strange choice of word 'rushed'? Anyway

So there was compression by what 20.8%
So after they rushed in enclves TC lived in 80% of 18%=14.4% of land.

Here it seems to me that assumptions are being made that are not necessarily true. It assumes that the average land area owned by TC that fled is the same on average as those that did not. I do not know id this is the case or not but I suspect it is not. The majority of those fleeing came from villages and feld to urban areas or tent cities that were as densly populated as urban areas. If 10% of TC fled areas where they owned an average land area of say 20 donums fled to areas where the other 90% of TC lived and owned and average land area of 5 donums then the overall reduction in land for all TC is going to be in excess of a 10% reduction. Again I am not saying this proves anything about the 3% figure. I am just pointinbg out that the maths you use is not necessarily correct.

If you use maths you will also verify the 3% refers to the Nicosia-Kionelli enclave

If you say it is, I do not know. Maybe this is the basis of the 3% figure and it has subsequently been misued by others? I do not know.

Does my reply make sense?

Overall it does. I think there are assumptons in your maths calculation that are not necessarily correct. I would accept that it seems unlikely/near impossible that all TC were living in only 3% of the Islands land area even in the worst of their 'compression'. The 3% figure may relate to the area of land that just the refugees ended up living in or it may represent just some of those areas. Again I do not know and in reality I do not really care what these figures are. I only got involved in the discussion to try and respond to the original posters question and help them try to understand where this figure came from and if it is accurate or not, personaly I do not care and I do not think the figure whatever it is matters that much.

[MicAtCyp]

GC property: 59,6 %
TC property: 12,3 %
Armenian / maronite property: 1,4%
State land, roads, forests etc: 26,7%

From a study carried out by the Cyprus Geographical association in cooperation with prof. Richard Patrick:

GC property: 59,2 %
TC property: 12,9 %
Armenian / maronite property: 1,6%
State land, roads, forests etc: 26,3%

Yes vre Othellos we know these figures, but those are the privately own lands . The Tcs had some public forests in their villages had some rivers,some roads, had some public uninhabited mountains thats why I said they lived in 18% area. Similarly as you very rightfully say the privately owned land of the GCs was 60% although they were 80% of the population.

********************

I am not trying to defend this figure just to help the original poster with there quesry 'where does it come from'. If it is the claimed figure for either of these (or something else) it could be right or wrong - I do not know.

It could help if we knew who said it, were he was living when he said it, and what his actual wording was.