Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

Birkibrisli i am afraid that your ideas r not shared by most tcs.

as a result if we want a solution that would be accepted from both sides the idea of one- community- one -vote is unavoidable.

u know, sometimes i think that a solution to many different problems would be given from children from mixed marriages.

i think about this senario many times.

what would a half gc tc kid choose as a system?

or imagine , what would he choose if his mother owns a piece of land in the north that used to belong to a gc, while his father lost a same piece of land after the war. ha can claim only one piece of land either as a tc citizen or as a gc refugee. (or just change make the father a tc who lost land in 1963 or sth)

i wouldnt want to be in such a dilemma

still the choise would be interesting

but what the hell i am i talking about? mixed marriages? in cyprus?

[BirKibrisli]

Hello,Pirates/Cypezokyli,thanks for replying to my post.I am away from home at the moment but ducked into an iternet cafe in Sydney for a minute.I know guys that we have to be realistic about a solution but being realistic has gotten us nowhere for 50 years.Or rather it got us into deep you-know -what.So lets dream...about a Cyprus where people marry each other because of love irrespective of their ethnic origin,where everyone speaks 3 languages (Turkish,Greek,English) and nobody gives a damn about nationalism,or better still everybody who consider themselves Greek/Turkish or whatever first goes back to their "motherland" or "fatherland" or whatever. With what remains in Cyprus and whoever wants to return from exile (I will be back in a shot to such a Cyprus) we can build a civilisation that will be the envy of the world.I have a 19 year old daughter and I would be over the moon if she married to a Cypriot of Greek background in such a Cyprus.As you say Cypezokyli,what could children from such a marriage do but feel they are Cypriots first and foremost. I think it is important that we start dreaming or before long there will be two Cypruses one belonging to the EU and Britain and the other to the USA and Turkey.This is the present tragic situation of Cypriots,and I dont give a damn if anybody calls me a traitor or a fool or whatever. keep on dreaming my good friends.Love to you all.

[Piratis]

Birkibrisli, I agree with everything that you said so far. I lived abroad also and I want my country to be a normal country and not some kind of banana republic. I don't know if I would be able to live in a state were progress is something horbitten and we are stuck in the past.

However there is something that you have to consider:

Greek Cypriots are the 82% and Turkish Cypriots only the 18%. If we intermix in the way you propose (inter-marriages etc) then it is inevitable that after several generations the Turkish Cypriots would be assimilated into the Greek Cypriot majority. Of course this mixing will also change GReek Cypriots, but in any case if you mix 82% of blue with 18% of red the result will be much more blue than red (ok, I suck in color theory so this example might be incorrect, but you get the point)

You said that you live in Australia. How many 3rd or 4th generation GCs and TCs still speak the language of their ancestors?

As far as I understand preserving their unique identity is something important for the TCs. I believe that the state of a united Cyprus should help the TCs maintain this unique identity. Of course now with the EU and with the so many foreigners it is doubtful that we will manage to preserve much of any kind of identity in Cyprus, but thats another story.

[Dhavlos]

Birkibrisli,

i agree with everything you say, however, after being in this forum, you soon find that it is quite difficult for many GCs/Tcs within cyprus(and elsewhere) to try and think of themselves as the 'same',cypritos, not Greeks or Turks. My 'soltuion' to the powersharing issue was one which seemed to satisfy this. If anything, it would bring the communities together politically, as they would have to work together to make law.

Agios A, in the kind of solution im invisaging, the TCs would not realistically block everything the GCs do, because the parliament would be made up of pan-cypriot parties for any real govt to work, so if possible, one party would have the majority in both communities. It is actually better in my opinion that if we have to have pancypriot parties, just so that one party can have a majority, all the better i say.

[Piratis]

the parliament would be made up of pan-cypriot parties

Ok...
and what would the percentage of TC MP be from these pan-cyprian parties? Around the T|C population of 18%, or 50%?

[Dhavlos]

Quote:
the parliament would be made up of pan-cypriot parties

Ok...
and what would the percentage of TC MP be from these pan-cyprian parties? Around the T|C population of 18%, or 50%?

i dunno, it would depend on each party, as to how much they want to be elected....

That is for electoral choice(or whatever) to decide. There shouldnt be a law for it...it just makes electoral sense, that if a party wants to be elected, then they need to appeal to both communities.

[Piratis]

I don't know why a party would not want to appeal to both communities anyways. TCs are 18%. If you consider that in almost all presidential elections the one that won did so with a very small % difference it is obvious to me that with 18% TCs can very easily be the controlling power in Cyprus even without any special arrangements.
For example if TCs were voting in next presidential elections with one man one vote system, do you think that Papadopoulos would have a chance to be re-elected?

While I agree that some minimum quotas can be placed to protect TCs, I think that a normal democracy like it exists in all other EU countries is by far the most fair system for both communities.

[Dhavlos]

For example if TCs were voting in next presidential elections with one man one vote system, do you think that Papadopoulos would have a chance to be re-elected?

I would not be able to comment as my knoweldge of cypriot politics in that sense is very limited.

All my idea promotes...i feel...is the perminant inclusion of both communities in politics, which simple majority voting does not(in my opinion...for example, simple majorities could lead to the TCs being outlined, especially if the majority of GCs agree to a law, irrespective of party affiliation)

what my idea also allows for, i beleive, is the sidelining of bizonality(which i am against) in favour of strong local government, because the TCs would have significant power in the main parliament, so the need of their own seperate area is made redundant.

[Piratis]

what my idea also allows for, i beleive, is the sidelining of bizonality(which i am against) in favour of strong local government, because the TCs would have significant power in the main parliament, so the need of their own seperate area is made redundant.

I suggest to have a look at the 1960 constitution then. TCs had more than significant power in the central government, a vice president with veto power, and blocking power in the parliament.

Unfortunately bizonality is very important for the TC leadership and Turkey since without bizonality their (disguised) partition dream would not be achieved. For Turkey the only other acceptable alternative other than partition is a system that would allow them to control the whole Cyprus and not just a part of it.

[BirKibrisli]

Hello Piratis/Dhavlos,
As I said earl;ier I am away from my computer these days so that explains the delay in my reply.Pirates,you are kind to suggest TCs are 18 per cent of the population.That was in 1960 (when I and thousands of other Tcs were still there!)These days you'd be lucky if there is 10per cent real TCs in Cyprus.That is the problem. TCs are swamped by 10s of thousands of mainlanders or settlers as they are called.Just last month alone 30,000 of them were given TRNC citizenship by Talat and his cronies.Cypriot culture (and language -we speak a different Turkish dialect to the Turks) is slowly exterminated in the NOrth.Very soon it will be impossible to have any sort of solution that would include TCs as there will be none left on the island.As I said earlier the North will be totally dominated by Turkish (read mainland) and American interests. And you can see in Iraq what the USA is prepared to do to protect its interests.
I agree with Pirates that we need to return to the Cyprus constitution of 1960,and try to make it work the second time around. If Turkey (and Greece and Britain) retain their guarantor status,they might be prepared to give ground on the settler issue.I know the GCs would be generous to agree to return to the 1960 constitution,and some TCs too afraid to want to,but this might be our only chance to save the island from permanent division.