Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

...Perhaps you can show us, step by step, how your Cypriot nationalism will help us move one centimetre towards a solution

It’s no different to how American nationalism has fused multiple ethnic backgrounds and religions into a single voice/force.

The trick is to elevate the country itself above all, and lower all the segregating characteristics pertaining to individuals such as religion, ethnicity, gender, etc.

Unlike America, Cyprus is not a freshly colonised country, but has been in existence as part of the Greek world for thousands of years.

I don't see why a multicultural society cannot be built on the back of that.

Otherwise, if you want a USA style new nation, based on ethnic cleansing, then the Turks are the only ones who have a "right" to do that. Is that what you want?

If you want to change the nature of Cyprus so much, then you can start anywhere and do the same. Or better still, move to another freshly colonised country whose history has been wiped out, because Cyprus' history will NOT be wiped out!

Cyprus is what it has always been! A land where people can mix freely and prosper, amidst the battles to remove wannabe rulers.

[Omer Seyhan]

...Perhaps you can show us, step by step, how your Cypriot nationalism will help us move one centimetre towards a solution

It’s no different to how American nationalism has fused multiple ethnic backgrounds and religions into a single voice/force.

The trick is to elevate the country itself above all, and lower all the segregating characteristics pertaining to individuals such as religion, ethnicity, gender, etc.

Unlike America, Cyprus is not a freshly colonised country, but has been in existence as part of the Greek world for thousands of years.

I don't see why a multicultural society cannot be built on the back of that.

Otherwise, if you want a USA style new nation, based on ethnic cleansing, then the Turks are the only ones who have a "right" to do that. Is that what you want?

If you want to change the nature of Cyprus so much, then you can start anywhere and do the same. Or better still, move to another freshly colonised country whose history has been wiped out, because Cyprus' history will NOT be wiped out!

Cyprus is what it has always been! A land where people can mix freely and prosper, amidst the battles to remove wannabe rulers.

Of course BirKibrisli and others there will always be a small opposition to Cypriot unity presented in different ways. Here is an example of a Cypriot pretending to be Greek, a person for whom clearly the scanty information we have over the classical period of Cyprus' history is more important than social reunification and the economics of unity today.

[Omer Seyhan]

Hmmm, don't think you answered the question - application and real world - read it 3 times but really nothing there for me. Perhaps worth trying again Omer.

I don't understand - do you underestimate people power?

[boomerang]

ofcourse bir knows what has to be done...he lived through prejudices and racism in the OZ the last 40 odd years...if you were to compare the 60'and 70's in oz with today it's like chalk and cheese...starting with the ill treatment of aboriginals with target shooting to the stolen generation and the raping of their lands...and finishing with the immigrants where it was taboo to speak your own language in public...

those days are long gone...today we are a true multiculture society where my rights are as good as everyoones...you walk down the street and you hear many languages...

all this could not be achieved without re inforcing democracy, human rights and the rule of thumb...

what surprices me the most is bir must have been asleep all this time as he seems to have not been part of this revolution...

bir wants to keep the old flame alive and well by insisting on apologies, and then comes up with a beautyrealities on the ground, a bbf system...

if you, bir, want apologies then you shouldn't speak of realities on the ground coz what happened in the past was also a reality on the ground at that time...but it seems good ol' bir not only wants the cake, but to eat it aswell...

here is one bir, why don't the peace loving tcs, demonstrate against the da vinci on the mountain as a sign of respect, huh?...even if the goal is not achieved respect will go a long way...

[Get Real!]

...Perhaps you can show us, step by step, how your Cypriot nationalism will help us move one centimetre towards a solution

It’s no different to how American nationalism has fused multiple ethnic backgrounds and religions into a single voice/force.

The trick is to elevate the country itself above all, and lower all the segregating characteristics pertaining to individuals such as religion, ethnicity, gender, etc.

Unlike America, Cyprus is not a freshly colonised country, but has been in existence as part of the Greek world for thousands of years.

I’m sorry but there’s no evidence of that… it’s just an ASSUMPTION to fill in the blanks.

I don't see why a multicultural society cannot be built on the back of that.

The only “state” I know of built on fictional narrative is Narnia!

Otherwise, if you want a USA style new nation, based on ethnic cleansing,....

USA style? No, that's something you've just invented! The (contemporary) US was used ONLY as a good example of diversity taking second stage to nationalism so let's not get too carried away with other aspects of it.

[Oracle]

...Perhaps you can show us, step by step, how your Cypriot nationalism will help us move one centimetre towards a solution

It’s no different to how American nationalism has fused multiple ethnic backgrounds and religions into a single voice/force.

The trick is to elevate the country itself above all, and lower all the segregating characteristics pertaining to individuals such as religion, ethnicity, gender, etc.

Unlike America, Cyprus is not a freshly colonised country, but has been in existence as part of the Greek world for thousands of years.

I’m sorry but there’s no evidence of that… it’s just an ASSUMPTION to fill in the blanks.

So what else is an ASSUMPTION? The idea that the Ottomans invaded some centuries ago and have been ruling Cyprus on and off (mostly on) ever since? Because it's part of the same historical narrative and you cannot pick and choose what you want to believe to expedite a temporary problem. You will be sowing future problems.

Otherwise, if you want a USA style new nation, based on ethnic cleansing,....

USA style? No, that's something you've just invented! The (contemporary) US was used ONLY as a good example of diversity taking second stage to nationalism so let's not get too carried away with other aspects of it.

Well, you used the example above and it fits in very well, so long as you allow the Turks to claim colonised Cyprus, sideline the natives, and start afresh a whole new nation under a declaration of "equality".

[Acikgoz]

Hmmm, don't think you answered the question - application and real world - read it 3 times but really nothing there for me. Perhaps worth trying again Omer.

I don't understand - do you underestimate people power?

No. I believe people power, for all Cypriots, can only be a viable method for unity if all people believe they will be best served by the cause. Currently the situation does not provide fertile ground for people power. The point being what pragmatic steps are you proposing to foster trust, confidence and love to allow pan-Cypriot nationalism to flourish.

[Get Real!]

Oracle, I can repeat it a million times if need be…

For as long as there is NO EVIDENCE of a Mycenaean colonization of Cyprus; allegedly at around 1200BC, then everything else “Greek” about Cyprus CANNOT stand!

[boomerang]

Hmmm, don't think you answered the question - application and real world - read it 3 times but really nothing there for me. Perhaps worth trying again Omer.

I don't understand - do you underestimate people power?

No. I believe people power, for all Cypriots, can only be a viable method for unity if all people believe they will be best served by the cause. Currently the situation does not provide fertile ground for people power. The point being what pragmatic steps are you proposing to foster trust, confidence and love to allow pan-Cypriot nationalism to flourish.

getting rid of the graffitti of the mountain will go a long way...if the tcs were fair dinkum about a solution they would demonstrate it...

[BirKibrisli]

Okey,sunshine...Before you disappear again only to return with more bullshit and selfstimulating comments ( ) here is a challenge for you... You keep talking about Cypriot nationalism,but you are very short on detail...Perhaps you can show us, step by step, how your Cypriot nationalism will help us move one centimetre towards a solution,given the mutual mistrust and suspicion that exist between the TCs and GCs, out there, in the real world....I am all eyes and ears...

Ok, challenge accepted ( I thought I was doing this anyway in my posts).

I don't really talk about Cypriot nationalism though. Just let me correct you. My method is Liberal or civic nationalism, which is ultimately citizenship.

*** Liberal nationalism is a kind of nationalism identified by political philosophers who believe in a non-xenophobic form of nationalism compatible with liberal values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights. Ernest Renan and John Stuart Mill are often thought to be early liberal nationalists. Liberal nationalists often defend the value of national identity by saying that individuals need a national identity in order to lead meaningful, autonomous lives and that liberal democratic polities need national identity in order to function properly.

On a last note, I really can't commit to not disappearing again, when duty calls I have to go... I hope you understand.

Okey,"Omer"...We have established that you are an idealist and a dreamer...There is nothing wrong with either...I have been accused of both in the past...Of course people need a national identity and a sense of belonging to be happy and well adjusted individuals and groups,we don't need Renan or Mill to tell us that...But how can you develop a national identity or sense of belonging when you are told you cannot be Cypriots but Ottoman remnants,and get accused of leaving your ancestral lands at the drop of a hat,to pave the way of Turkey's territorial ambitions...???

Anyway,you are right in what you said elsewhere,we cannot do much to change anything in Forums like this...The best we can hope for is to let people know we are just like they are,flesh and blood that feels and hurts very much like themselves...Given our realilty,the demonisation of the "other" for so long,it would be something if we can achieve even that...
Most people.myself included use this forum as therapy...We get our frustrations and our anger out on each other,knowing well we are all helpless victims of international geopolitical power plays which have been going on for a very very long time,and have no intention of stopping...