Cyprus-Forum.com

[Alexandros Lordos]

This particular thread concerns the Settlers issue of the Cyprus Problem. You can use this thread to put forward proposals for this issue, "as if" you have been charged with the task of developing a new Peace Plan. And of course, you can evaluate and criticize the proposals put forward by others ...

If irrelevant threads develop, they will as a rule be moved to a separate topic, in order to keep this thread focused on the matter at hand - the Settlers issue.

[fi]

The majority of the settlers should have to leave Cyprus of course. Only those who are married with TC and can get Cypriot nationality legally can stay.

Lets not forget that what Turkey has done is considered a war crime by the Geneva Conventions Protocol of 1977.

[erolz]

Only those who are married with TC and can get Cypriot nationality legally can stay.

My view ia that second + generation 'settlers' should also recieve this status

As for others not in these categories I strongly believe that the TRNC and Turkey have a moral obligation to these people and they should not be sacraficed by either on the altar of political expediency. I fully understand GC issues re this and am more than happy to accept this group should have no rights to former GC property that was given to them and that any cost involved in 'supporting' them in a united Cyprus should fall solely and squarely on Turkish and TC shoulders alone. I just do not want the birth of a united Cyprus to be at the cost of these essentialy innocent and politicaly and finacialy weak human beings.

[fi]

This is a war crime lets not forget that.

These people knew what they were doing when coming here. Absolutely not acceptable to legalise and make good Turkeys attempt to change the demographics of the island. Would you accept the reverse??? Would you think if we brought 150,000 people from Greece that it's a shame to send these people back??

No all settlers should leave Cyprus. Don't make things right just because it suits you.

[erolz]

These people knew what they were doing when coming here.

They knew that they were attempting to try and improve thier lives for themselves and their children at the invtiation and with the support of goverment of the coiuntry they were levaing and the one in control of the place they were going too.

Absolutely not acceptable to legalise and make good Turkeys attempt to change the demographics of the island.

For me this is first and foremost a moral issue and not a legal one. As far as the legal issue is ocncerned if this is wrongdoing and punishment for this wrongdoing is necessary it should apply to Turkey and TRNC and not the settelers as indivduals. As a moral issue I believe we have a moreal obligation to these poeple - as people (human beings).

I also do not really understand this 'focus' on the chaging the the demographics of the Island as an issue. I undertsand arguments that settler votes in the TRNC potentialy affect GC adversesly but I do not think that in practice they have done so to any significant degree. From what I could see from Alexandros' surverys and the split of the results between 'natural' TC and settlers show that they are not a majority of voters in the TRNC and neither are their views on the core issues massively opposed to those of 'natural' TC. Post any solution that involves federation and some degree of political equality of component states I do not see how their numbers would affect anything - as the whole point is that equality is not related too numerical numbers. Further I think Cyprus needs and will need these 'extra' people to do the kobs that we do not and will not do ourselves.

Would you accept the reverse??? Would you think if we brought 150,000 people from Greece that it's a shame to send these people back??

If they were brought ot Cyprus as a result of political (and or practical) desire and incentives of the RoC and or Greece, then yes my view would be exactly the same - namely that as human beings they should not be made to suffer and made have their lives turned upside down and themselves made refugees, simply because it's no longer expedient / convient to those that invites and ecouraged them to come in the first place (and are the 'guilty' ones as far as their presense on the island goes)

Don't make things right just because it suits you.

I am explaing my views and why I hold them. That is after all the puprose of the forum is it not?

[fi]

Indead if that is so Turkey has a moral obligation to these people and is Turkeys business what to do with them after they leave Cyprus. It should then bring these people back to their own country and find them a home there.

Allowing second generation settlers would just legalize the illegal.

As for changing the demographics, then what does this move of Turkey hope to do? Federation has many different applications doesn't it?

I'm sorry but I believe that TC and GC have same and equal rights in Cyprus but people brought here illegaly have no place on the island.

Finally I wish everybody was so concerned for the suffering of human beings, if that was the case no invasion would have ever happened and 200,000 GC wouldn't have been left without their homes/properties, no missing people would still be sought after by their families.

[erolz]

Indead if that is so Turkey has a moral obligation to these people and is Turkeys business what to do with them after they leave Cyprus. It should then bring these people back to their own country and find them a home there.

I certainly accept that Turkey / TRNC should pay the cost - just not that these people as indivduals should pay by being forced to turn their lives upside down.

Perhaps one way forward in this issue would be for Turkey/TRNC offer moentary compensation of such a degree that voulantary return becomes compelling for all such settlers except perhaps a tiny minority for whom maintaing the 'cypriotness' that they have gained outweighs any finacial considerations.

Allowing second generation settlers would just legalize the illegal.

I accept your view on the illegality - I just do not believe that the second generation settlers are responsible for their having been born in Cyprus and not turkey and thus it is not them that should be punished for this illegality but those that are responsible for it.

As for changing the demographics, then what does this move of Turkey hope to do? Federation has many different applications doesn't it?

My prsonal beleif is that the encouraging of settlers to come to Cyprus post 74 had BOTH an element of 'political' motivation and an element of juist pure 'practical necessity'.

I'm sorry but I believe that TC and GC have same and equal rights in Cyprus but people brought here illegaly have no place on the island.

I understand your point of view I just do not share it. To my mind justice requires that those responsible for illegal acts should pay the price of this illegality and not those indivduals that are not responsibe for the illegality but merely the 'agents' through which the illegality was perpetrated.

I will try an analogy - it might not work. If someone throws me through a shop window I do not think that I should be held responsible for the criminal damage doen to that window - but the person who threw me should.

Finally I wish everybody was so concerned for the suffering of human beings, if that was the case no invasion would have ever happened and 200,000 GC wouldn't have been left without their homes/properties, no missing people would still be sought after by their families.

I certainly agree. If everyone was as concerned for the suffering of human beings as I profess to be, then not only would the pain and suffering caused by the events of 74 not have happend but neither would the pain and suffering of cypriots in the preceeding years have happend, nor much of the worlds suffering as well.

[Piratis]

Erolz, if GCs receive the 100% of their legal and human rights, then a number of settlers can stay if they will be taken care by the TC community and Turkey. However I hope you do not suggest that it is ok to violate GC human rights, and then at the same time be so sensitive with the human rights of the settlers.

[erolz]

However I hope you do not suggest that it is ok to violate GC human rights, and then at the same time be so sensitive with the human rights of the settlers.

The importance of your rights and their rights are of course no different. However my concern for these people is greater on the basis that you are clearly more than capable of making sure no one ever forgets your rights. You are not a minority in Cyprus in general or the part you currently live in, you are not political and economicaly weak in comparative terms to the settlers you have a government that represents your needs and only your needs, and the comparative chance that you will be 'sacraficed on the altar of political expediency' is vastly less than that same chance happening to the settlers. You (GC) also have imo more culpability in this mess that led to the settlers being invited and encourage to come to Cyprus that the settlers themselves do.

So you will have to forgive me if I worry more about standing up for these (comparatively) weaker people, who have no voices here in this forum (as far as I can see) and less voice in general than either TC or GC have as well as less culpability (imo).

[cypezokyli]

erolz wrote

My view ia that second + generation 'settlers' should also recieve this status

by that u mean the ones who were born in cyprus?

this problem is really complicated. what do we do with a 16 year old second generation turk? kick his parents off and let him stay?

i dont have a problem with your proposal.
it is true that it is a humanitarian problem . when it comes to compensations turkey should pay for them

is there a way to get a number in absolute terms on how many fall in these two classes?