Cyprus-Forum.com

[Alexandros Lordos]

This particular thread concerns the Security aspect of the Cyprus Problem. You can use this thread to put forward proposals for this issue, "as if" you have been charged with the task of developing a new Peace Plan. And of course, you can evaluate and criticize the proposals put forward by others

If irrelevant threads develop, they will as a rule be moved to a separate topic, in order to keep this thread focused on the matter at hand - the Security aspect of the Cyprus Problem.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Just to start off the topic, here are my own thoughts on the issue:

- "Demilitarization" is a pipe dream. You cannot have a state without armed forces, it is unreal.

- The old style "guarantee system" is dangerous for Cyprus. It invites a military escalation at the slightest provocation and eventual partition.

- A post-solution Cyprus will need its own armed forces eventually, we can not rely on international UN/EU/whatever forces indefinitely.

- Perhaps we can start with a mixed international/Cypriot force, to evolve into an all-Cypriot force eventually with just a few non-Cypriot advisors and officers at key posts.

- Guarantees by Greece and Turkey should be temporary, and secondary to the above system of integrated security. Cyprus should not be a protectorate forever.

Look forward to hear from you all ...

[erolz]

- "Demilitarization" is a pipe dream. You cannot have a state without armed forces, it is unreal.

Is it really? Are there no states that function perfectly well without armed forces? It can be and has been argued that the possesion of national arms , rather than decrease the chance of invasion actualy increases it and in direct proportion to the size of such national military capability. I view I personal hold.

- The old style "guarantee system" is dangerous for Cyprus. It invites a military escalation at the slightest provocation and eventual partition.

I fully understand your concerns with the 'guarantee system' and actually share them to a large degree. However from a TC point of view it should be understood that it was ultimately the only protection that proved effective - when the consitution had failed, when international politics and negotiation had failed, where rule of law had failed.

- A post-solution Cyprus will need its own armed forces eventually, we can not rely on international UN/EU/whatever forces indefinitely.

Why? Cyprus could make the progression an implementation of a central EU military force a major objective for itself within the EU. Personally I do not believe that we need a national army at all and that the creation of one is frought with dangers and costs that are not justifiable when weighed agaist the (often dubious imo) benefits.

- Perhaps we can start with a mixed international/Cypriot force, to evolve into an all-Cypriot force eventually with just a few non-Cypriot advisors and officers at key posts.

What would be the purpose of this force? To defend Cyprus in the face of military attack? If so from whom? From Turkey? Could such a force ever sucsessfuly defend Cyprus from a military attack from a country the size of Turkey? I do not believe it could even if we spent 80% of the national welath on arms and imposed mandatory military service of 5 years for all cypriot adults. In my view all it could achieve is and increase in the human cost of such an invasion force AND Cypriots but not prevent the sucsess of such a hypothetical invasion. It could be argued that it would act as a deterrent because of thei increased cost of implementing an invasion of Cyprus and I can accpet such arguments. However I do not personally believe that the difference this might make to a would be aggressors decision to invade or not is worth the cost needed to achieve it.

Just my pesonal views as a human being, a cypriot and an TC.

[Kifeas]

Just to start off the topic, here are my own thoughts on the issue:

- "Demilitarization" is a pipe dream. You cannot have a state without armed forces, it is unreal.

- The old style "guarantee system" is dangerous for Cyprus. It invites a military escalation at the slightest provocation and eventual partition.

- A post-solution Cyprus will need its own armed forces eventually, we can not rely on international UN/EU/whatever forces indefinitely.

- Perhaps we can start with a mixed international/Cypriot force, to evolve into an all-Cypriot force eventually with just a few non-Cypriot advisors and officers at key posts.

- Guarantees by Greece and Turkey should be temporary, and secondary to the above system of integrated security. Cyprus should not be a protectorate forever.

Look forward to hear from you all ...

I happen to share the entire of your above thoughts, Alexandros!

You cannot have a state without armed forces!

And even if one would argue that when there are armed forces there is a potential to be used against the people of the country - be it in a coup fashion or against one or the other community, still you need AA missile defence and naval /coastal defence due to the fact that we live in an area of the world that has always the potential for regional wars and conflicts, which might affect us in numerous unconceivable ways! There is no country today that can afford its airports, airspace and coastlines without defence mechanisms in place!

[fi]

A mixed defense force should be in place.

With probably an aliance with both Greece and Tukey to protect Cyprus from any possible third party. That could also be handled by Cyprus entering NATO.

[erolz]

You cannot have a state without armed forces!

Tell this to the swiss?

There is no country today that can afford its airports, airspace and coastlines without defence mechanisms in place!

Tell this to the swiss? or to the citizens of luxenbourg (am pretty sure they do not have an army)?

Can a people defeat military exploitation of others without an army? I believe they can and I believe there are examples of this in history (with the defeat of British colonialism in India as one prime example).

[fi]

Swiss: financial interests and position
Luxemburg: position, ties etc.

Cyprus is in a risky part of the world does not has the aliances etc. that the other two countries have.

[fi]

However note:

"Switzerland is a politically neutral country, yet it has more soldiers per capita than any other Western democracy. Odd? The Swiss don't think so--or at least, most of them don't. According to Swiss military dogma, a powerful citizen army is the best way to preserve Switzerland's neutrality and keep neighboring countries from invading Swiss territory. They may be right; Switzerland hasn't been at war in 500 years."

http://europeforvisitors.com/switzaustr ... s_army.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/military-of-switzerland

You should check your sources.

[erolz]

Cyprus is in a risky part of the world does not has the aliances etc. that the other two countries have.

The RoC has very stong alliances - within the EU and elsewhere as far I can see.

However note:

"Switzerland is a politically neutral country,

I would prefer a 'citizens army' (ignoring problems of intercommunal violence in Cyprus) to a standing army. I think it's cheaper and at least as or more effective.

I owuld prefer a 'citizens non violent resitance force' even more as I believe this would be cheaper still (and not just in finacial terms but human as well) and even more effective than either a standing army or a 'citizens mililta' as per the swiss model.

[Piratis]

"Demilitarization" is a pipe dream. You cannot have a state without armed forces, it is unreal.

This depends. Do you suggest that our children should keep wasting 2 years from their lives and that we should be reserves going to the army twice a year until we die?
Now that we do all these and we spent a respected part from the budget the result is that we can hold an invasion for maybe a week or at most 2 if we do it right. Of course now with our country partly occupied we have no other choice. But after a solution why we should continue these? Do you think that our army would be able to withstand an invasion from Turkey or Israel? Or that they ones that will be invading us will be the Maltese?


I believe we just need some good air defense systems (e.g. S-300) in case somebody gets pissed at the British Bases and they start throwing us missiles, and we need a part of the police to be fully equipped to be able to take small scale missions. Beyond that everything else will just be a waste of time and money.