Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

...Greece demonstrates a very strong will, and a clear vision of their international responsibility. Turkey will go too far, with the hope that their incursions will forever be ignored by the global community. like a house made out of cards, when it falls, it will collapse in ruin completely.

I didn't realize that allowing fighters to pass over your Frigates at 150FT demonstrates strong will and having a clear vision of international responsibilities.

News to me!

[Nikitas]

"Was there a treaty which stated that the Aegean islands belonging to Greece should remain de-militarised. Was it the Lausanne Treaty?"

The present instance is totally irrelevant to any convention about islands etc. The ship was 14 miles off the nearest coast, in international waters which had been reserved by a notice of military manouvers in the usual way as per international practice. Remember international waters, those waters we are all charging the Israelis of violating last week?

If you start looking at the details of the Lausanne treaty and what facilities it granted Greece and others in the Bosphorus then the arming of islands becomes a detail of relatively little importance.

When Papandreou told the Turkish delegation a couple of weeks ago that Greeks suspect Turkish intentions re the Aegean islands the statement was greeted with laughter. Actions like the ones yesterday and more today speak much louder than laughter. The threat is real and renewed every day. Disarming the islands would be total lunacy in view of the daily violations of air and sea space and the routine harassment of Greek civilian ships and planes.

This could be the miilitary acting on their own, or it could be a well orchestrated "good guy bad guy" routine between Erdoghan and the military. Whatever it is, it is real and ongoing and justifies all steps of pre emptive self defence.

[denizaksulu]

...Greece demonstrates a very strong will, and a clear vision of their international responsibility. Turkey will go too far, with the hope that their incursions will forever be ignored by the global community. like a house made out of cards, when it falls, it will collapse in ruin completely.

I didn't realize that allowing fighters to pass over your Frigates at 150FT demonstrates strong will and having a clear vision of international responsibilities.

News to me!

Do you think that Greece does not know what is happening. As long as the 'defence' remains 'invisible' there is NO PROBLEM. They will not start WW111 just for your benefit. I bet they (Greece) has got the Turkish coast/defences on close scrutiny.

[denizaksulu]

"Was there a treaty which stated that the Aegean islands belonging to Greece should remain de-militarised. Was it the Lausanne Treaty?"

The present instance is totally irrelevant to any convention about islands etc. The ship was 14 miles off the nearest coast, in international waters which had been reserved by a notice of military manouvers in the usual way as per international practice. Remember international waters, those waters we are all charging the Israelis of violating last week?

If you start looking at the details of the Lausanne treaty and what facilities it granted Greece and others in the Bosphorus then the arming of islands becomes a detail of relatively little importance.

When Papandreou told the Turkish delegation a couple of weeks ago that Greeks suspect Turkish intentions re the Aegean islands the statement was greeted with laughter. Actions like the ones yesterday and more today speak much louder than laughter. The threat is real and renewed every day. Disarming the islands would be total lunacy in view of the daily violations of air and sea space and the routine harassment of Greek civilian ships and planes.

This could be the miilitary acting on their own, or it could be a well orchestrated "good guy bad guy" routine between Erdoghan and the military. Whatever it is, it is real and ongoing and justifies all steps of pre emptive self defence.

It was a straightforward question. I was not suggesting the de-militaring of the islands - the designated ones to the north and the docecanese should have not been 'militarised ' in the first instance. As the Greek sourced link above stated, the Lausanne treaty was broken long ago. What implications are there, I dare not ask!!!

[Paphitis]

...Greece demonstrates a very strong will, and a clear vision of their international responsibility. Turkey will go too far, with the hope that their incursions will forever be ignored by the global community. like a house made out of cards, when it falls, it will collapse in ruin completely.

I didn't realize that allowing fighters to pass over your Frigates at 150FT demonstrates strong will and having a clear vision of international responsibilities.

News to me!

Do you think that Greece does not know what is happening. As long as the 'defence' remains 'invisible' there is NO PROBLEM. They will not start WW111 just for your benefit. I bet they (Greece) has got the Turkish coast/defences on close scrutiny.

Yes I know about keeping radar defences switched off.

But not on your Frigates or on Mobile Anti Aircraft sites.

Certainly wouldn't happen here that is for sure!

The problem lies with the violations into Greek territorial Waters and National Airspace, and the danger this presents to Shipping and Civil Aviation.

[denizaksulu]

...Greece demonstrates a very strong will, and a clear vision of their international responsibility. Turkey will go too far, with the hope that their incursions will forever be ignored by the global community. like a house made out of cards, when it falls, it will collapse in ruin completely.

I didn't realize that allowing fighters to pass over your Frigates at 150FT demonstrates strong will and having a clear vision of international responsibilities.

News to me!

Do you think that Greece does not know what is happening. As long as the 'defence' remains 'invisible' there is NO PROBLEM. They will not start WW111 just for your benefit. I bet they (Greece) has got the Turkish coast/defences on close scrutiny.

Yes I know about keeping radar defences switched off.

But not on your Frigates or on Mobile Anti Aircraft sites.

Certainly wouldn't happen here that is for sure!

The problem lies with the violations into Greek territorial Waters and National Airspace, and the danger this presents to Shipping and Civil Aviation.

The Turks harm no one except themselves as they have proved. They would not harm the brothers across the waters.

[repulsewarrior]

...patience is key. Greece is certainly applauded in circles where diplomacy counts. violent actions beget violence as we see from the recent flotilla to Gaza. sorry Paphitis, your argument about the danger to civil aircraft and to shipping are not evident, therefore not valid. less is more, in this case.

[Paphitis]

...Greece demonstrates a very strong will, and a clear vision of their international responsibility. Turkey will go too far, with the hope that their incursions will forever be ignored by the global community. like a house made out of cards, when it falls, it will collapse in ruin completely.

I didn't realize that allowing fighters to pass over your Frigates at 150FT demonstrates strong will and having a clear vision of international responsibilities.

News to me!

Do you think that Greece does not know what is happening. As long as the 'defence' remains 'invisible' there is NO PROBLEM. They will not start WW111 just for your benefit. I bet they (Greece) has got the Turkish coast/defences on close scrutiny.

Yes I know about keeping radar defences switched off.

But not on your Frigates or on Mobile Anti Aircraft sites.

Certainly wouldn't happen here that is for sure!

The problem lies with the violations into Greek territorial Waters and National Airspace, and the danger this presents to Shipping and Civil Aviation.

The Turks harm no one except themselves as they have proved. They would not harm the brothers across the waters.

That would depend on whether they are carrying metal rods or not!

If that is the case, all bets are off!

[Paphitis]

...patience is key. Greece is certainly applauded in circles where diplomacy counts. violent actions beget violence as we see from the recent flotilla to Gaza. sorry Paphitis, your argument about the danger to civil aircraft and to shipping are not evident, therefore not valid. less is more, in this case.

Do you see anyone applauding? Honestly, no one cares.

Yes there is a danger. There are reported dog fights near civil aircraft. Even Egypt Air reported a fireball when a Greek and Turkish F-16 collided and crashed into the sea near Karpathos!

If Greece thinks this is responsible, I can assure you that many don't and will never allow such violations, which is why Greek Waters and Airspace are regularly violated and ours are not!

It is pretty pathetic if you ask me.

[Nikitas]

Buzzing civilian planes and harassing ships is routine. I was on a hydroplane near Rhodos and a Turkish coastguard boat came alongside to race us. Obviously a conventional boat cannot keep up with a hydroplane, but the captain of the coastguard tried and saw all variations of the middle finger gesture, from tourists on the hydro. A few French tourists also demonstrated the gesture of an uppercut interrupted at the elbow. The Greek passengers were the only ones that remained cool about his antics.