Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

Piratis,
Turkey is not a person, like Cyprus it is a state. As states they do not possess a single and unitary consciousness therefore neither Turkey nor Cyprus (nor any other state, even Israel) can be hypocritical. Start again.

Surely the government of a state can be referred to as hypocrites, so the policy of that government could be said to be hypocritical.

"The hypocrisy of Turkey" can be interpreted as shorthand for "The hypocrisy of the government of Turkey"

You are splitting hairs simply to have a pop at Piratis, Copperline.

Hypocrisy :

The assuming of a false appearance of virtue or goodness, with dissimulation of real character or inclinations

States can have contradictory, inconsistent, or bad policies; politicians and diplomats etc can lie, cheat and kill for the state; but states cannot be hypocritical, true or good.

This is not splitting hairs, any more than it is splitting hairs to argue against characterising Greek Cypriots as being cheats or Turkish Cypriots as being lazy, or Turks as being killers. These people, like states, are not essentially any particular thing.

Having posted this explanation if I did this simply to assume a false appearance eg one who didn't give a damn about the proper meaning of hypocrite and just did this to dissimulate my real character to have a "pop at Piratis" (there are much easier ways, surely), then I would indeed be guilty of hypocrisy. But I'm not.

[Jerry]

Piratis,
Turkey is not a person, like Cyprus it is a state. As states they do not possess a single and unitary consciousness therefore neither Turkey nor Cyprus (nor any other state, even Israel) can be hypocritical. Start again.

Surely the government of a state can be referred to as hypocrites, so the policy of that government could be said to be hypocritical.

"The hypocrisy of Turkey" can be interpreted as shorthand for "The hypocrisy of the government of Turkey"

You are splitting hairs simply to have a pop at Piratis, Copperline.

Hypocrisy :

The assuming of a false appearance of virtue or goodness, with dissimulation of real character or inclinations

States can have contradictory, inconsistent, or bad policies; politicians and diplomats etc can lie, cheat and kill for the state; but states cannot be hypocritical, true or good.

This is not splitting hairs, any more than it is splitting hairs to argue against characterising Greek Cypriots as being cheats or Turkish Cypriots as being lazy, or Turks as being killers. These people, like states, are not essentially any particular thing.

Having posted this explanation if I did this simply to assume a false appearance eg one who didn't give a damn about the proper meaning of hypocrite and just did this to dissimulate my real character to have a "pop at Piratis" (there are much easier ways, surely), then I would indeed be guilty of hypocrisy. But I'm not.

The government of a state is made up of identifiable individuals who could be described as hypocrites - I'm sure you can figure the rest out.

[ttoli]

Personally speaking, I would rather see Israel in the EU. We can live with them as we have more in common.

How exactly???????????, Both persecute the minority population??, Tight as a ducks arse??, Big Nose(Coz air is free!)??. You tell me

[Bananiot]

Piratis left it late but he did hoist an Israeli flag eventually. The situation as it is unfolding poses a real dilemma for all the bash patriots. This is because a good and proper bash patriot must be antisemitic and a Turk eater. Piratis and all the bash patriots of the forum chose the second. Why am I not surprised?

[Oracle]

The beauty of this scenario is that the two tribes might weaken each other enough to give the rest of us a break.

I don't think anyone is seriously backing one or the other. Just hoping they will knock each other out senseless [except, they already are!]

The right thing will happen in the end.

And Cyprus, as one whole, united restored island is the only right course ...

[YFred]

The beauty of this scenario is that the two tribes might weaken each other enough to give the rest of us a break.

I don't think anyone is seriously backing one or the other. Just hoping they will knock each other out senseless [except, they already are!]

The right thing will happen in the end.

And Cyprus, as one whole, united restored island is the only right course ...

Dream on. They are not allowed. They have common master and a very tight leash.

This will be a war with proxy. Just as they armed the TMT and the Bosnians, they will also arm Hamas right under the noses of the chosen tribe.

[denizaksulu]

The beauty of this scenario is that the two tribes might weaken each other enough to give the rest of us a break.

I don't think anyone is seriously backing one or the other. Just hoping they will knock each other out senseless [except, they already are!]

The right thing will happen in the end.

And Cyprus, as one whole, united restored island is the only right course ...

An important point here Oracle is that there are no intelligent people with a military mind on this forum (apart from GR(possibly)) to tell us forumers that in the event of hostilities in the area, Cyprus will be sucked in big time. No one can foresee any results of any conflict in the area. But ofcourse Computer gamers will come up with many scenarios - but all fictional.

[YFred]

The beauty of this scenario is that the two tribes might weaken each other enough to give the rest of us a break.

I don't think anyone is seriously backing one or the other. Just hoping they will knock each other out senseless [except, they already are!]

The right thing will happen in the end.

And Cyprus, as one whole, united restored island is the only right course ...

An important point here Oracle is that there are no intelligent people with a military mind on this forum (apart from GR(possibly)) to tell us forumers that in the event of hostilities in the area, Cyprus will be sucked in big time. No one can foresee any results of any conflict in the area. But ofcourse Computer gamers will come up with many scenarios - but all fictional.

All GiRa has is a playstation game with a small joystick which he plays daily. Military expert, I think not. He looks at an elephant and sees an ant.

A true ant&dec if ever I saw one.

[denizaksulu]

The beauty of this scenario is that the two tribes might weaken each other enough to give the rest of us a break.

I don't think anyone is seriously backing one or the other. Just hoping they will knock each other out senseless [except, they already are!]

The right thing will happen in the end.

And Cyprus, as one whole, united restored island is the only right course ...

An important point here Oracle is that there are no intelligent people with a military mind on this forum (apart from GR(possibly)) to tell us forumers that in the event of hostilities in the area, Cyprus will be sucked in big time. No one can foresee any results of any conflict in the area. But ofcourse Computer gamers will come up with many scenarios - but all fictional.

All GiRa has is a playstation game with a small joystick which he plays daily. Military expert, I think not. He looks at an elephant and sees an ant.

A true ant&dec if ever I saw one.

[repulsewarrior]

...cyprus dear O will be a shithole with the "Palestinian" fear here.

it is an issue of control; Turkey remembers 200 years back, it appears neo Ottoman, unable to find progress in the way of Kemal, they choose as Kemalists to look at the roots too deeply. mix this with the opportunity in a Muslim Alliance so that this face is defined in a stature which can overcome their Jewish adversary, while providing to Europe an equal.

maybe the Muslims will bend the Jews for Israel; and maybe the Muslims will bend in Cyprus for the Occidental world.

...but it will be filled with the horror which has actually escaped us for so long. i am not sure there are soldiers as brave as the Canadians representing the UN here. when the terror breaks, they will be forced to withdraw. anyway the shiny lining is that between 200 and 800 years from now, Cyprus will be what it should be, a beautiful garden.

in the mean time, with our little Problem, (afterall the population is not 12.5 million), we should focus on the words of the Pope (although for political reasons it's a shame he had to say these things), because the issues are not "Jew" and "Greek" and "Turk"and "Arab", and it requires a definition for People who are Individuals within a State, and Persons within a Society. Bicommunal suits these needs.

similarly, as in other situations in this region, the land is spotted with Communities which adapt, having their distinctiveness as a result of their closeness to the land. Bizonal as i've described it allows for this natural behaviour.

really, i don't know what it is which keeps people mum. a Unitary State is possible in Cyprus, which satisfies the Turks if it is perfection they seek. with the existence of National Assemblies who provide for Minorities as Majorities; and whose Charters are held by a Federal Government that is Sovereign in our defence as Individuals: having Rights equal without any other distinction, the world as well as ourselves will be bettered.

Treaties can be written, one between Turkey and Cyprus is due; a wonderful way for each to recognise the other, ...however, one hopes that as people with reason a less cruel "solution" is found, other than violence that becomes war.

...please reread my manifesto.

xxoxoxo