Cyprus-Forum.com

[IMPOSTALIEDUS]

[quote="Nikitas"]The policy of settlement in the north is proven by very real and substantial evidence- the grnting of nationality, the creation of settler political parties, the appointment of settlers in public service posts and political appointments. Granting land is also part of the process but not the most important or potentially damaging to any political settlement.

When this is mentioned the retort is "how about the Sri Lankans and the Pontians in the south". There is a hell of a difference between residence permits to aliens, who remain aliens with no voting rights, and what is going on in the north and which is very much like the granting of Israeli nationality to any jews simply because of their faith.

Like the north, Israel has shown a remarkable rise in population, from 2 million in the 60s to 6 million today. Thomas, who is a very experienced and often honored reporter had this in mind when she frankly and honestly stated her opinion for which she was severely and unjustly punished.[/quote can anyone become a jew ,and can anyone go and live in israel ,

[Acikgoz]

Turkey maintains a policy of bringing in thousands of Anatolian colonists to settle in the occupied area...do i agree with this? No, i certainly do not.

I often see such statements put forward by GCs and surprised myself that I haven't commented directly until now.

There is no "policy" for bringing in thousands of immigrants from Turkey to north Cyprus.
There was the period in the 80s and early 90s during Denktas where immigrants came to work the land etc. and after were "gifted" lands. Beyond that, over the last 10-15 yrs, the immigrants have not been enticed by any govt. policy, but by the opportunity potential. Remember the 2004-6 where the rapid increase in immigrants occurred that was due to the real estate sector demand.

TRNC is unlike Israel on the context of colonisation. We have no kibuts, there is no repatriate "Turks" for Cyprus fund, etc. etc. kitchen economics brought the immigrants over, not Turkish policy.

I bring this up because not understanding the reason for immigration means evaluations on the parties are incorrect.

The policy of settlement in the north is proven by very real and substantial evidence- the grnting of nationality, the creation of settler political parties, the appointment of settlers in public service posts and political appointments. Granting land is also part of the process but not the most important or potentially damaging to any political settlement.

When this is mentioned the retort is "how about the Sri Lankans and the Pontians in the south". There is a hell of a difference between residence permits to aliens, who remain aliens with no voting rights, and what is going on in the north and which is very much like the granting of Israeli nationality to any jews simply because of their faith.

Like the north, Israel has shown a remarkable rise in population, from 2 million in the 60s to 6 million today. Thomas, who is a very experienced and often honored reporter had this in mind when she frankly and honestly stated her opinion for which she was severely and unjustly punished.

Nikitas, I pulled all the discussion to ensure the points made are not missed.

1. The people that immigrate to Turkey do (did) that of their own desire. They buy their ticket, take the risk they will be able to find work etc. etc.
2. Turkey has no colonisation policy, Turkish Cypriots wanted them to come in. The only time Turkish Cypriots got their feathers ruffled was after seeing the sales of the lands they were given being sold for large amounts and when the influx from the construction sector brought with it a criminal element.
3. Businesses from Turkey investing in TRNC do that not with grants from Turkey but from their own investment and risk.
4. Granting of citizenship? What is the problem with that really - the US auctions off Green Cards, Canada is looking for new immigrants, EU nationals can use all countries in the EU as their home etc. etc.
5. Citizens should be able to form their own parties - you cannot not offer voting rights to the citizens of your country
6. The RoC does what it does, but I am not commenting on their policy.
7. There are flaws in the north as many foreign nationals have not been given TRNC nationality and the period for waiting is long (or was so under Talat and has been mentioned it is under review)

I hope this clarifies the situation and my need to share with you why your initial statement is significantly off base. I appreciate Turkey is the boogie man for most GCs, but it's really not culpable for all the frustrations of GCs.

[Nikitas]

"the US auctions off Green Cards, Canada is looking for new immigrants, EU nationals can use all countries in the EU as their home etc. etc."

None of those countries have set up shop on someone else's land. Granting citizenship in the case of TRNC is not simply an act of sovereign rights, which it deems it has and is not the point here. The net result of these naturalisations is an upset in the demographic map of the whole of Cyprus. This is where se see the analogy with the Israeli policy of going from 2 to 6 million inhabitants with the foreseeable results in the balance of local population claims.

[Simon]

@ Simon

You are wrong.

It is not NATOs responsibility to defend Australia. We have our own ANZUS Treaty, but are not as reliant on the US as Europe is.

Also, Australia has invested heavily in Nuclear Research. Many billions in fact, and many ADF have died. We are always designing delivery systems and looking for an F-111 replacement. Make your own mind up.

The NPT will not stop anything when push comes to shove.

Paphitis, if Australia was under serious attack (including nuclear) what do you think NATO or ANZUS (take your pick, it's all about the US at the end of the day) would do? Let's use a bit of common sense. Australia has invested in nuclear research, but so have many countries, it's ridiculous to assume that because of this Australia has nuclear weapons. I can think of several countries off the top of my head that have conducted extensive nuclear research, including Brazil, South Africa, Canada and Libya. Are you saying it is likely all these countries have nuclear weapons as well? Nuclear material has many other uses other than for weapons, and delivery systems do not have to have nuclear warheads on them. Further, the NNPT is very relevant here. The only country that has withdrawn from it is North Korea, and the only country apparently in breach is Iran. Is that the type of company Australia intends to keep in the future? Iran and North Korea?

Dude, Australia is not a member of NATO. We are a signator to the ANZUS Treaty. This is a regional pact between Australia and the US, and it includes NZ.

If Australia was under heavy attack, which may be nuclear, then the US is said to be, according to the ANZUS Treaty, obligated to take up Australia's defence, which may again include the deployment of nuclear weapons, for which the ADF is capable of delivering. Australia does not have any defence agreements with NATO or any other NATO member, including the UK!

There is only ANZUS! NATO has nothing to do with Australia, other than being an alliance block of nations which may offer Australia assistance but is not obligated to. If Australia was under nuclear attack, most European NATO countries would have already been anihilated.

Once again Simon, Australia is not a NATO nation!!!'

Paphitis, you're completely missing the point by focusing on one small part of my post and ignoring the rest. I am well aware of the position with NATO, and I understand Australia is a signatory to the ANZUS Treaty. This is why I said NATO or ANZUS, it doesn't matter much, it's all about the US in the end! The fact that Australia isn't a part of NATO doesn't detract anything from my argument as Australia still has US military support through ANZUS, and NATO countries such as the UK also see Australia as a very close ally and would obviously support Australia against an external threat. I don't really understand why you are focusing on this small, largely irrelevant detail, and skipping the main point of my post. Possibly because you accept its content?

[Oracle]

"the US auctions off Green Cards, Canada is looking for new immigrants, EU nationals can use all countries in the EU as their home etc. etc."

None of those countries have set up shop on someone else's land. Granting citizenship in the case of TRNC is not simply an act of sovereign rights, which it deems it has and is not the point here. The net result of these naturalisations is an upset in the demographic map of the whole of Cyprus. This is where se see the analogy with the Israeli policy of going from 2 to 6 million inhabitants with the foreseeable results in the balance of local population claims.

What the Turks are doing in the occupied north is worse than the reasons for the increasing population seen in Israel. The figures that have inflated from 2 to 6 Million were due to Diasporic Jews 'returning' to an ancestral area.

The Turks have introduced Settlers whose origins at best are simply Anatolian and at worst Eastern/Mongolian and certainly none have any call to claim they ever had any ancestors originally from Cyprus!

Pure parthenogenic colonisation and Turkic expansionism!

[YFred]

Dr. Norman Finkelstein has some very interesting comments about Azrail.

[Nikitas]

Brilliant post YFred! It is about time a jew comes out with the truth about the brutalisation of the Palestinians.

There was an interview on the world service of the BBC two nights ago, with the UN officer overseeing the deliveries of humanitarian aid to Ghaza. At various times pencils, notebooks, medical equipment are treated as dangerous maerials by the Israelis and forbidden to cross the check points.

[YFred]

Brilliant post YFred! It is about time a jew comes out with the truth about the brutalisation of the Palestinians.

There was an interview on the world service of the BBC two nights ago, with the UN officer overseeing the deliveries of humanitarian aid to Ghaza. At various times pencils, notebooks, medical equipment are treated as dangerous materials by the Israelis and forbidden to cross the check points.

Not to allow Cement in after the devastation of the last attack is just beyond belief.

Not even all the medical supplies are being allowed in.

What the hell is the UN doing.

[Nikitas]

The UN has no power to do anything other than document the refusals and comment on them. Which is not much but in the circumstances is better than nothing.

[wyoming cowboy]

Turkey maintains a policy of bringing in thousands of Anatolian colonists to settle in the occupied area...do i agree with this? No, i certainly do not.

I often see such statements put forward by GCs and surprised myself that I haven't commented directly until now.

There is no "policy" for bringing in thousands of immigrants from Turkey to north Cyprus.
There was the period in the 80s and early 90s during Denktas where immigrants came to work the land etc. and after were "gifted" lands. Beyond that, over the last 10-15 yrs, the immigrants have not been enticed by any govt. policy, but by the opportunity potential. Remember the 2004-6 where the rapid increase in immigrants occurred that was due to the real estate sector demand.

TRNC is unlike Israel on the context of colonisation. We have no kibuts, there is no repatriate "Turks" for Cyprus fund, etc. etc. kitchen economics brought the immigrants over, not Turkish policy.

I bring this up because not understanding the reason for immigration means evaluations on the parties are incorrect.

The policy of settlement in the north is proven by very real and substantial evidence- the grnting of nationality, the creation of settler political parties, the appointment of settlers in public service posts and political appointments. Granting land is also part of the process but not the most important or potentially damaging to any political settlement.

When this is mentioned the retort is "how about the Sri Lankans and the Pontians in the south". There is a hell of a difference between residence permits to aliens, who remain aliens with no voting rights, and what is going on in the north and which is very much like the granting of Israeli nationality to any jews simply because of their faith.

Like the north, Israel has shown a remarkable rise in population, from 2 million in the 60s to 6 million today. Thomas, who is a very experienced and often honored reporter had this in mind when she frankly and honestly stated her opinion for which she was severely and unjustly punished.

Nikitas, I pulled all the discussion to ensure the points made are not missed.

1. The people that immigrate to Turkey do (did) that of their own desire. They buy their ticket, take the risk they will be able to find work etc. etc.
2. Turkey has no colonisation policy, Turkish Cypriots wanted them to come in. The only time Turkish Cypriots got their feathers ruffled was after seeing the sales of the lands they were given being sold for large amounts and when the influx from the construction sector brought with it a criminal element.
3. Businesses from Turkey investing in TRNC do that not with grants from Turkey but from their own investment and risk.
4. Granting of citizenship? What is the problem with that really - the US auctions off Green Cards, Canada is looking for new immigrants, EU nationals can use all countries in the EU as their home etc. etc.
5. Citizens should be able to form their own parties - you cannot not offer voting rights to the citizens of your country
6. The RoC does what it does, but I am not commenting on their policy.
7. There are flaws in the north as many foreign nationals have not been given TRNC nationality and the period for waiting is long (or was so under Talat and has been mentioned it is under review)

I hope this clarifies the situation and my need to share with you why your initial statement is significantly off base. I appreciate Turkey is the boogie man for most GCs, but it's really not culpable for all the frustrations of GCs.

Again pure and utter nonsense from an uninformed brainwashed twit........All your statements from 1-7 can easily be answered with"""The Turkish occuppied areas of Cyprus, which is the legitimate and lawful administrator of the whole of Cyprus, are illegally occuppied by Turkey and therefore any and all acts are illegal, through UN resolutions, Eu Echr rulings, and the Geneva convention which Turkey and The Republic of Cyprus are signatories."

Moving right along you havent clarified anything other then when you were writing this post your private parts were itching, that seems very clear.