Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

DT...I want to see action taken at governmental level to bring about a fundamental change in Cypriot mentality...The GC government insist it is the legitimate government for all Cypriots...Well,they should stop wasting any more time,which is only consolidating Turkey's grip on the North and on the TCs...Which legitimate government brainwashes its own people to believe they are whiter than white,did nothing wrong in the past,and it is all the other side's fault??? Which legitimate government puts embargoes on its own people and on certain parts of its own country,which makes some Cypriots totally dependent on a foreign power...???We can talk here and agree on everything but it will not change the realities one iota...The lead must come from those who insist they are the legitimate government of this country...They should start educating Cypriots about what really happened in the past,instead of feeding them one sided propaganda...The TCs are in a survival mode,and they have been there for 47 years...There is nothing much they can do...You need to give them something to make them proud to be Cypriots...Not a kick in the guts,morning ,day and night,as you have been doing for the past 47 years...Then you can talk to me ,and I can talk to them, about Cypriot nationalism...Otherwise I can talk about the brotherhood and sisterhood of the Cypriots till cows come home,and it will all fall on deaf ears....This is the lesson I learnt from the past...

[Omer Seyhan]

OOOOOoooooopppppppppsssssssssss dreaming again that as human beings we can reach out to one another and make all wrongs right

There is nothing wrong in dreaming,dear A...But don't put your hopes in these phony nationalists with nothing but empty words to lure you into a false sense of comradeship...Those who show no empathy or compassion for the "other " side unless they agree with everything the phony nationalists say,deserve only contempt...And contempt is very healthy when it is justly distributed...

What a load of tosh, "contempt" is very unhealthy both for your mind and spirit.

The sad thing is, you live in Australia, a happy country compared to most that was voted best place to live by the UN. You should be happy that you live in a young, rich, culturally diverse and free country with democracy. You have everything you need and more, you can get elected, you can vote out governments, you can vote to control immigration, your kids can become whatever they want, you do not need to nor do your kids need to immigrate to get a job, you can get every kind of food item in Australia whether in or out of season and you can travel extensively... the same cannot be said for isolated Turkish speaking Cypriots.

So.... if you are going to take an interest in Cyprus, you should fight not for segregation and partition that will preserve this shitty situation but fight to bring what you enjoy everyday to Cyprus. Why don't you do that?

This is not about your suffering all those years ago or my personal ideas, everything is and has to be always for mother Cyprus.

Who says I am fighting for partition and preservation of the present situation...??? My friend,you are suffering from cognitive distortions,very serious ones...Years before you even signed on this Forum I was fighting for the unification of our homeland...I realised however that wishing for unification is not enough...We need to develop mutual respect and understanding,to even hope for a just solution...But people like you turn up from time to time and tell us Cypriot nationalism is the magic key to our problems...Only, you don't tell us HOW we are to breach our differences,how we will trust each other again,and respect each other enough to want to live together...You and your stooges are full of hot air...Empty rhetoric will get us nowhere...You might feel morally superior to me or those who are talking about the realities of the situation. But that is all your nationalist wanking is achieving...You talk about the isolation of the TCs...But not a word about the reasons they are isolated,or the steps necessary to remove the isolation...It is obvious that blind faith in the "other" will not come out of thin air...Trust,understanding ,and respect need hard work to develop...I am still waiting for some concrete and realistic suggestions as to how we will move on from where we are...How long will you keep me waiting "Omer Seyhan"...wanker extraordinaire...

I already said in a previous post that I seek a philosophical change in the Cypriot mind as my main goal. This is very important and as important as a political solution itself. If your mind is prepared for unity - a solution will follow....

As for your continuous 'invitation' for step by step action - I will and have already made many suggestions on this forum, but you know as well as I do that the peace process led by the politicians is the only arena where "concrete" steps can be taken. Neither you nor I are negotiators.

My job and your job here is to complement the ongoing peace process by making intelligent and rational suggestions to the respective Cypriot leaders and their technical/ working groups who may or may not be reading, and who may or may not (for reasons they will never tell us) adopt them in their own way.

Our job is not to 'negotiate' a solution here as if we are on mastermind or in court, but to argue any suggestions our members come up with in order to improve upon or find better ones. With all respect, you are not doing that, you have no goal because you are just arguing against everything with no alternatives, and everybody here now sees you as a saboteur.

You talk about establishing "common respect" between the communities in a few of your posts. What do you mean by that? elaborate a little on that point please. I would argue there is respect for different identities (Greek or Turkish Cypriot prefix variety especially) but none for a unified Cypriot identity without which who will lead a united Cyprus?

Do you think the future Federalists of Nicosia will get very far if like the Ottawa federalists they do not put the state first before their communities / religion / region etc....? This is not treachery or sycophancy (yalakalik as we say in Turkish) but reality.

[Omer Seyhan]

DT...I want to see action taken at governmental level to bring about a fundamental change in Cypriot mentality...The GC government insist it is the legitimate government for all Cypriots...Well,they should stop wasting any more time,which is only consolidating Turkey's grip on the North and on the TCs...Which legitimate government brainwashes its own people to believe they are whiter than white,did nothing wrong in the past,and it is all the other side's fault??? Which legitimate government puts embargoes on its own people and on certain parts of its own country,which makes some Cypriots totally dependent on a foreign power...???We can talk here and agree on everything but it will not change the realities one iota...The lead must come from those who insist they are the legitimate government of this country...They should start educating Cypriots about what really happened in the past,instead of feeding them one sided propaganda...The TCs are in a survival mode,and they have been there for 47 years...There is nothing much they can do...You need to give them something to make them proud to be Cypriots...Not a kick in the guts,morning ,day and night,as you have been doing for the past 47 years...Then you can talk to me ,and I can talk to them, about Cypriot nationalism...Otherwise I can talk about the brotherhood and sisterhood of the Cypriots till cows come home,and it will all fall on deaf ears....This is the lesson I learnt from the past...

You are very wrong here. Don't wait for action from politicians - you lead the way even if it means you have to accept that some of your friends have not caught up with you.

[Omer Seyhan]

Every one on this forum knows how much respect I have for any Cypriot who embraces our island as the motherland , a Cypriot such as Birkibrisly whom I'm sad to note that " destructive" influences have penetrated his outlook. We have all covered in the past the wrongs committed by both sides of the divide , we have all agreed that in order to move on and create the right atmosphere that will take us into unification and to the removal of occupying troops from our soil , we all must accept equal blame for the sad events that caused so much destruction in Cyprus.
My very close contact and warm friendship with Deniz has fortified my views that in Cyprus there should be no majority or minority issues , Denis is part of the Cypriot people having embraced Cyprus ,just as I have , as the motherland , if Deniz is in the minority then so am I .
Omer Seyhan , just like others on this forum , has brought with him a breath of fresh Cypriot air , his views I respect a great deal , to him I say , brother we are Cypriots and as such WE ARE the majority .
Omer is not by far the only T/C to have such wonderful and constructive views. As mentioned many times in the past I daily , as a result of by business , come into contact with T/Cs who express precisely the same views.
The isolation of the T/Cs in the occupied northern parts is regrettable and the quickest it comes to an end the better , however we all realize that any move by the RoC to facilitate the removal can only and will only be translated as capitulation to the occupying force and recognition of the division of Cyprus.

I am the same person you know and respect,dear miltiades...Nothing has changed in my view of things...Cyprus is my motherland and I know no other...I would like to see our island reunited and Cypriots forging ahead as one people,one nation...But this is not going to happen by us sitting here day after day,month after month,year after year,talking about Cypruiot nationalism and how nice it would be if we all embraced it...While we are doing this my community,the Turkish Cypriots,is assimilated into the greater Turkish society and culture,and they are disappearing before my eyes...All because the average GC would not vote for a solution other than the maximalist,hence condemning the TCs to certain extinction...This is what has turned me around..The realisation that the average GC would rather see 37% of Cyprus become permanently Turkish,and have the satisfaction of seeing the TCs disappear as a unique community...This GC mentality is my enemy,and I will fight it till the end of my life...If you think you can get the Turkish Army out of Cyprus by preaching democracy and human rights,please go ahead and do it...If you think we can solve Cyprus problem by sweeping all the tragic past under the carpet,go ahead and find a solution...I have come to the realisation that the only way Cypriuots will be united is if we have the courage to bring eveything out in the open,stop historical revisionism,accept our part in this mess,appologise to each other and promise to start again afresh,this time with good intensions,as Cypriots first and not as GCs or TCs...Convince the average GC to stop hating the TCs,and stop wanting to make them disappear for their twisted need for revenge for stifling their ENOSIS dream,then we will talk about Cypriot nationalism...Until then we are all pissing against the wind while my community becomes extinct,slowly but surely...

I am the same person you know and respect,dear miltiades...Nothing has changed in my view of things...Cyprus is my motherland and I know no other...I would like to see our island reunited and Cypriots forging ahead as one people,one nation..

Ok, great, then why are you arguing against this?

Convince the average GC to stop hating the TCs,and stop wanting to make them disappear for their twisted need for revenge for stifling their ENOSIS dream,then we will talk about Cypriot nationalism..

The vast majority of Greek Cypriots do NOT hate Turkish Cypriots. But there are a few that do yes. There are a few Turkish Cypriots that hate Greek Cypriots too.

[BirKibrisli]

OOOOOoooooopppppppppsssssssssss dreaming again that as human beings we can reach out to one another and make all wrongs right

There is nothing wrong in dreaming,dear A...But don't put your hopes in these phony nationalists with nothing but empty words to lure you into a false sense of comradeship...Those who show no empathy or compassion for the "other " side unless they agree with everything the phony nationalists say,deserve only contempt...And contempt is very healthy when it is justly distributed...

What a load of tosh, "contempt" is very unhealthy both for your mind and spirit.

The sad thing is, you live in Australia, a happy country compared to most that was voted best place to live by the UN. You should be happy that you live in a young, rich, culturally diverse and free country with democracy. You have everything you need and more, you can get elected, you can vote out governments, you can vote to control immigration, your kids can become whatever they want, you do not need to nor do your kids need to immigrate to get a job, you can get every kind of food item in Australia whether in or out of season and you can travel extensively... the same cannot be said for isolated Turkish speaking Cypriots.

So.... if you are going to take an interest in Cyprus, you should fight not for segregation and partition that will preserve this shitty situation but fight to bring what you enjoy everyday to Cyprus. Why don't you do that?

This is not about your suffering all those years ago or my personal ideas, everything is and has to be always for mother Cyprus.

Who says I am fighting for partition and preservation of the present situation...??? My friend,you are suffering from cognitive distortions,very serious ones...Years before you even signed on this Forum I was fighting for the unification of our homeland...I realised however that wishing for unification is not enough...We need to develop mutual respect and understanding,to even hope for a just solution...But people like you turn up from time to time and tell us Cypriot nationalism is the magic key to our problems...Only, you don't tell us HOW we are to breach our differences,how we will trust each other again,and respect each other enough to want to live together...You and your stooges are full of hot air...Empty rhetoric will get us nowhere...You might feel morally superior to me or those who are talking about the realities of the situation. But that is all your nationalist wanking is achieving...You talk about the isolation of the TCs...But not a word about the reasons they are isolated,or the steps necessary to remove the isolation...It is obvious that blind faith in the "other" will not come out of thin air...Trust,understanding ,and respect need hard work to develop...I am still waiting for some concrete and realistic suggestions as to how we will move on from where we are...How long will you keep me waiting "Omer Seyhan"...wanker extraordinaire...

I already said in a previous post that I seek a philosophical change in the Cypriot mind as my main goal. This is very important and as important as a political solution itself. If your mind is prepared for unity - a solution will follow....

As for your continuous 'invitation' for step by step action - I will and have already made many suggestions on this forum, but you know as well as I do that the peace process led by the politicians is the only arena where "concrete" steps can be taken. Neither you nor I are negotiators.

My job and your job here is to complement the ongoing peace process by making intelligent and rational suggestions to the respective Cypriot leaders and their technical/ working groups who may or may not be reading, and who may or may not (for reasons they will never tell us) adopt them in their own way.

Our job is not to 'negotiate' a solution here as if we are on mastermind or in court, but to argue any suggestions our members come up with in order to improve upon or find better ones. With all respect, you are not doing that, you have no goal because you are just arguing against everything with no alternatives, and everybody here now sees you as a saboteur.

You talk about establishing "common respect" between the communities in a few of your posts. What do you mean by that? elaborate a little on that point please. I would argue there is respect for different identities (Greek or Turkish Cypriot prefix variety especially) but none for a unified Cypriot identity without which who will lead a united Cyprus?

Do you think the future Federalists of Nicosia will get very far if like the Ottawa federalists they do not put the state first before their communities / religion / region etc....? This is not treachery or sycophancy (yalakalik as we say in Turkish) but reality.

I see...people have been living apart for 47 years,the TCs are still smarting from being robbed of their rightful place in their own government,and their treatment in the enclaves between 63-74,and the GCs are still smarting from being robbed of their ENOSIS dream,and the trauma of 74,and you are hoping a "philosophical change in the Cypriot mind"...And you wander why I call you wanker extraordinaire...

My friend,I was doing what you are doing now,year after year,and do you know how far I got...??? People just kept talking about the only good Turk being a dead Turk,all TCs being traitors for not helping fight off the Greek coup against Makarios,all TCs being Ottoman remnants guilty of all the Ottoman sins going back to 1571,all TCs being thieves who want to gain on GC loss,and plans are being made as we speak to blow all the TCs away together with the Turkish Army at the first opportunity,and you are talkiing about a philosophical mind change...Well,good luck,I hope you have better success than I did in inducing philosphical change in Cypriot minds...And while you are giving yourself selfpleasure by indulging in moral superiority to the rest of us,the TC plight continues in the North,more settlers arrive every day,and the moral and physical dependence and obligation of the TCs towards Turkey grows...Oh,and the embargos by the RoC on its own people ,the ones you call Cypriot,continues...

[Get Real!]

My friend,I was doing what you are doing now,year after year,...

After repeatedly calling him a swine he now switches to Ottoman diplomacy!

You shallow farce of a diplomat!

[Omer Seyhan]

OOOOOoooooopppppppppsssssssssss dreaming again that as human beings we can reach out to one another and make all wrongs right

There is nothing wrong in dreaming,dear A...But don't put your hopes in these phony nationalists with nothing but empty words to lure you into a false sense of comradeship...Those who show no empathy or compassion for the "other " side unless they agree with everything the phony nationalists say,deserve only contempt...And contempt is very healthy when it is justly distributed...

What a load of tosh, "contempt" is very unhealthy both for your mind and spirit.

The sad thing is, you live in Australia, a happy country compared to most that was voted best place to live by the UN. You should be happy that you live in a young, rich, culturally diverse and free country with democracy. You have everything you need and more, you can get elected, you can vote out governments, you can vote to control immigration, your kids can become whatever they want, you do not need to nor do your kids need to immigrate to get a job, you can get every kind of food item in Australia whether in or out of season and you can travel extensively... the same cannot be said for isolated Turkish speaking Cypriots.

So.... if you are going to take an interest in Cyprus, you should fight not for segregation and partition that will preserve this shitty situation but fight to bring what you enjoy everyday to Cyprus. Why don't you do that?

This is not about your suffering all those years ago or my personal ideas, everything is and has to be always for mother Cyprus.

Who says I am fighting for partition and preservation of the present situation...??? My friend,you are suffering from cognitive distortions,very serious ones...Years before you even signed on this Forum I was fighting for the unification of our homeland...I realised however that wishing for unification is not enough...We need to develop mutual respect and understanding,to even hope for a just solution...But people like you turn up from time to time and tell us Cypriot nationalism is the magic key to our problems...Only, you don't tell us HOW we are to breach our differences,how we will trust each other again,and respect each other enough to want to live together...You and your stooges are full of hot air...Empty rhetoric will get us nowhere...You might feel morally superior to me or those who are talking about the realities of the situation. But that is all your nationalist wanking is achieving...You talk about the isolation of the TCs...But not a word about the reasons they are isolated,or the steps necessary to remove the isolation...It is obvious that blind faith in the "other" will not come out of thin air...Trust,understanding ,and respect need hard work to develop...I am still waiting for some concrete and realistic suggestions as to how we will move on from where we are...How long will you keep me waiting "Omer Seyhan"...wanker extraordinaire...

I already said in a previous post that I seek a philosophical change in the Cypriot mind as my main goal. This is very important and as important as a political solution itself. If your mind is prepared for unity - a solution will follow....

As for your continuous 'invitation' for step by step action - I will and have already made many suggestions on this forum, but you know as well as I do that the peace process led by the politicians is the only arena where "concrete" steps can be taken. Neither you nor I are negotiators.

My job and your job here is to complement the ongoing peace process by making intelligent and rational suggestions to the respective Cypriot leaders and their technical/ working groups who may or may not be reading, and who may or may not (for reasons they will never tell us) adopt them in their own way.

Our job is not to 'negotiate' a solution here as if we are on mastermind or in court, but to argue any suggestions our members come up with in order to improve upon or find better ones. With all respect, you are not doing that, you have no goal because you are just arguing against everything with no alternatives, and everybody here now sees you as a saboteur.

You talk about establishing "common respect" between the communities in a few of your posts. What do you mean by that? elaborate a little on that point please. I would argue there is respect for different identities (Greek or Turkish Cypriot prefix variety especially) but none for a unified Cypriot identity without which who will lead a united Cyprus?

Do you think the future Federalists of Nicosia will get very far if like the Ottawa federalists they do not put the state first before their communities / religion / region etc....? This is not treachery or sycophancy (yalakalik as we say in Turkish) but reality.

I see...people have been living apart for 47 years,the TCs are still smarting from being robbed of their rightful place in their own government,and their treatment in the enclaves between 63-74,and the GCs are still smarting from being robbed of their ENOSIS dream,and the trauma of 74,and you are hoping a "philosophical change in the Cypriot mind"...And you wander why I call you wanker extraordinaire...

My friend,I was doing what you are doing now,year after year,and do you know how far I got...??? People just kept talking about the only good Turk being a dead Turk,all TCs being traitors for not helping fight off the Greek coup against Makarios,all TCs being Ottoman remnants guilty of all the Ottoman sins going back to 1571,all TCs being thieves who want to gain on GC loss,and plans are being made as we speak to blow all the TCs away together with the Turkish Army at the first opportunity,and you are talkiing about a philosophical mind change...Well,good luck,I hope you have better success than I did in inducing philosphical change in Cypriot minds...And while you are giving yourself selfpleasure by indulging in moral superiority to the rest of us,the TC plight continues in the North,more settlers arrive every day,and the moral and physical dependence and obligation of the TCs towards Turkey grows...Oh,and the embargos by the RoC on its own people ,the ones you call Cypriot,continues...

Its a pity you have given up. But I do feel you've been unlucky with the Greek speaking Cypriots that you've met. I have had positive experiences.

I don't agree with your charge against the Republic of Cyprus over its "embargo" on the north. This is false.

There is isolation caused by the insistence on using the label "TRNC." There are no embargoes by the RoC or from the international community on Turkish Cypriots. There is only a rejection of the TRNC as a separatist entity.

This rejection means that there is a problem in the EU trading directly with the TRNC as the Turkish Cypriot leadership is encouraged by Turkey to demand. The EU cannot agree to products with "TRNC" (or Made in TRNC) within the EU because of its own trade laws.

Furthermore, the RoC does not need to lobby Brussels to prevent direct trade because the TRNC has a bad international reputation. It is not recognised as a state and the area is in fact considered by the UN and EU a military occupied area where Turkey is in charge. 194 countries in the world agree with this. Not even pro-Turkish Azerbaijan or the Palestinian State recognises the TRNC or wants anything to do with it.

This leads us to international law, the EU cannot trade directly with an area of its own member state which is "occupied". International laws cannot be bent to permit countries the right to fly directly into an occupied area of a state without dealing first with that country's civil aviation authority. To do all these things would set a very bad precedent internationally, one which many countries do not want to see happen for their own internal reasons.

Spain would oppose it, as would France which has its own problems with separatism, and its a logical response! Can you imagine if the Welsh National Assembly starting to allow planes to fly directly or trade directly with other countries without any consultation with London.

Or how would the Turkish Republic feel if a Kurdish controlled part of its country starting flying directly to Stockholm without asking the Turkish Civil Aviation Authority or trading directly with Italy without respecting Turkey's laws and regulations on trade. How would Ankara react to this?

Only a solution of unity can ensure direct trade and direct flights, and deal with the other issues you raised, settlers etc. All Cypriots have a lot to gain from a solution based on unity.

[BirKibrisli]

My friend,I was doing what you are doing now,year after year,...

After repeatedly calling him a swine he now switches to Ottoman diplomacy!

You shallow farce of a diplomat!

You know English well enough to know that "my friend" does not always mean My Friend,you fcuking swine!

[BirKibrisli]

There is isolation caused by the insistence on using the label "TRNC." There are no embargoes by the RoC or from the international community on Turkish Cypriots. There is only a rejection of the TRNC as a separatist entity.

Sorry but I stopped reading your post right here...Even sporting teams cannot play friendly games in the North without the RoC kicking and screaming!!! You are truly deluded about this...There is not much point talking to you...

[denizaksulu]

There is isolation caused by the insistence on using the label "TRNC." There are no embargoes by the RoC or from the international community on Turkish Cypriots. There is only a rejection of the TRNC as a separatist entity.

Sorry but I stopped reading your post right here...Even sporting teams cannot play friendly games in the North without the RoC kicking and screaming!!! You are truly deluded about this...There is not much point talking to you...

Dont worry yegen about Seyhan. He cant see his own contradiction regarding the embargoes. If I was in a bad mood, I would doubt that he is a TC.