Cyprus-Forum.com

[-mikkie2-]

Bananiot,

Indeed many mistakes were made. However, do not for one minute think that Turkey would fulfill her obligations in GOOD FAITH. Hell, how do we know the Greek junta would have as well. We may have signed that accord, but the junta would still have tried to do what it did in 1974 with the same end result as we have had today.

No, I am not stupid or naive to believe that we are angels Banantiot. I also never have and will never agree with the concept of enosis. All I want is a united Cyprus where each and every person has the same rights as anyone else and where both comuunities can feel secure.

[Viewpoint]

-mikkie2-

All I want is a united Cyprus where each and every person has the same rights as anyone else and where both comuunities can feel secure.

Easy to say but difficult to accomplish, how do we get there?, your ideals and viewpoint is totally different to mine... thast why we have stalemate and the current status quo will continue for the unforeseeable future.

[Bananiot]

Glad you accept that many mistakes were made. However, these grave mistakes were made by the same people that rule us today. If they made them then, why should I put any trust in them that they will not repeat themselves. Since politics is the art of the feasible, where will we end when again we are asking for the maximum, when we are the minnows of the equation? If you beleive that is is possible to say sorry and start all over again, then this is no more than wishful thinking which will get us nowhere. The years that have passed cannot be deleted and forgotten. The solution to our problem will inevitably take into account everything that happened since 1963. I cannot see any other solution than BBF in which the two communities will have equal political rights. Any other solution proposed is a chimera. Simply stating that we want a democratic solution for a united island that respects the individual rights of every person, is not enough. The A Plan tried to give flesh and bone to a mutually agreed solution. Our side rejected it on the promise that a better, European solution was there for the taking. Again, a nebulous promise with no substance. It now appears that the TC's may be ready to negotiate some changes to the plan (Soyer's comment after he met Christofias) but Papadopoulos, instead of taking this oppening and examining the situation, he lets it bypass us indicating once more that he is not interested in the A plan and its philosophy but rather he cares for something else, probably a return to the 1960 agreements, which is a non starter. Personally I have no reason not to accept this but I seriously question its feasibility to be accepted by both parts. I wish he came out clean on this one.

Furthermore, if we argue and believe that Turkey is not a trustworthy negotiator, then we might as well accept that there can be no solution as long as Turkey exists and at least stop wasting energy on this issue and look elsewhere. In this case it will be like throwing the glove and leaving everything to kismet.

[Kifeas]

Klerides gave an interview to "Politis" newspaper on July 15. This is what he has to say on the issue.

"It is a fact that in 1973 we came very close to a solution which improved Zurich. The Turks accepted many of our demands including the reduction in the % participation in government and public service from 70-30 to 80-20. In return we gave local self government. The sticky issue at the time was the one regarding separate municipalities. Denktash and Turkey asked for reiteration of the part of the 1960 Constitution which said that enosis and partition are excluded from the new state. I considered that the new agreement modified that of 1960. Thus, anything that does not change continues to remain valid. Makarios insisted that he would never again sign a document that exluded enosis. Then, the thought that prevailed was for a protocol to be signed between Turkey and Greece which would state that the two countries rejected enosis and partition. The Greek junta rejected this proposal".

Bananiot, acting once more as a water bucket carrier of the Turkish propaganda watermills and a fervent apologiser of Denktashic politics, has stricken again.

Bananiot decided to quote the arteriosclerotic zivania drunken old ox -who after 1974 had also served as the political Houser of the EOKA B boys, in his sneaky posthumous fame insinuations that Makarios was not forthcoming to the signing of the agreed solution between him and Denktash, simply because he (Makarios) did not want to put his signature under a document that would have prohibited Enosis.

As simple as that, for the drunken old ox and the stalking-horse!

Bananiot is conveniently forgetting that during those days there was an EOKA B organisation and an entirely infested with Junta officers National Guard, who had given an oath to unite Cyprus with Greece and who vowed to chop Makarios head because he was negotiating a political settlement with the Turks, instead of promoting the goal of Enosis and who (EOKA B) had already made several assassination attempts against him (Makarios) for this very same reason.

Such is the selective memory of the apologiser of Denktashist rhetoric, that he is forgetting the fact that it was the Turkish side who wanted to drag their feet on the issue of signing the agreed solution, by opening the completely unnecessary subject of re-affirming the already existing non partition / non enosis provision of the 1960 agreements, with the only purpose of putting Makarios on a difficult position due to the unstable situation within the GC community as a result of the pro-enosis actions, threats and preaching of the EOKA B and the Greek Junta NG officers.

The “Don Quixote” of his ill defined re-rapprochement champagne, is conveniently ignoring that the reason the Turkish side was dragging their feet was no other than to gain more time in view of their valid expectation that the unstable situation that the EOKA B and the Greek Junta were creating, would have given them the perfect pre-text to invade and partition the island and, it is for this reason that they were opening subjects and issues unrelated to the pending political differences between the two communities.

The majorette of the anti-GC propaganda in this forum is also ignoring that the determining factor that made Junta take the final decision to order the coup against Makarios, was his decision to order the reduction of the GC National Guard by half and send the letter to the Junta president Gizikis, asking him to withdraw his officers from Cyprus.

Bananiot found it convenient to isolate a deliberately incomplete description of those events by the invertebrate drunken old ox, in order to introduce the oxymoron notion that Makarios was only keen of Enosis and it is for this reason that he was not so forthcoming to the finalising of those agreements.

No Mr. Bananiot! The only reason why Makarios tried to kick the ball away and into the courts of the Greek Junta and Turkey for this (legally unnecessary) re-signing of a non partition / non enosis pact, instead of taking the responsibility himself, was because he was afraid that the EOKA B and the National Guard, acting upon the orders of the Junta, were going to immediately overthrow him on that basis. When a bit later on -in June /July 1974, he realised that there was no way to stabilise the situation and proceed to a final solution of the Cyprus problem unless he would have first thrown off the yoke of the Greek Junta, he took the decision to reduce the size of the National Guard by half and use this act as an excuse to ask for the withdrawal of most of the Greek officers that were in charge of it and who were also conspiring against him and in favour of Enosis. Unfortunately it was too late for him and too late for Cyprus!

At least, read Drousiotis books first, since you are a fervent admirer of his analysis and his writings!

[Viewpoint]

double post deleted by author

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

conveniently forgetting that during those days there was an EOKA B organisation and an entirely infested with Junta officers National Guard, who had given an oath to unite Cyprus with Greece and who vowed to chop Makarios head because he was negotiating a political settlement with the Turks, instead of promoting the goal of Enosis and who (EOKA B) had already made several assassination attempts against him (Makarios) for this very same reason.

the completely unnecessary subject of re-affirming the already existing non partition / non enosis provision of the 1960 agreements, with the only purpose of putting Makarios on a difficult position due to the unstable situation within the GC community as a result of the pro-enosis actions, threats and preaching of the EOKA B and the Greek Junta NG officers.

The only reason why Makarios tried to kick the ball away and into the courts of the Greek Junta and Turkey for this (legally unnecessary) re-signing of a non partition / non enosis pact, instead of taking the responsibility himself, was because he was afraid that the EOKA B and the National Guard, acting upon the orders of the Junta, were going to immediately overthrow him on that basis.

the Turkish side who wanted to drag their feet on the issue of signing the agreed solution, by opening the completely unnecessary subject of re-affirming the already existing non partition / non enosis provision of the 1960 agreements

Was Makarios a saint??? Kifeas you make him sound like he strangled the TC community with love, wasnt this the man who liked to play with little boys?? Come on get real this was a man who pursued the Akritas plan supported EOKA B, danced with the Junta/National Guard and encouraged TCs to leave Cyprus strangling them with economic isolation is more like..

Plus again those silly TCs dragging their feet the simple Kifeas mentality TCs are to blame again...

[Kifeas]

Kifeas

conveniently forgetting that during those days there was an EOKA B organisation and an entirely infested with Junta officers National Guard, who had given an oath to unite Cyprus with Greece and who vowed to chop Makarios head because he was negotiating a political settlement with the Turks, instead of promoting the goal of Enosis and who (EOKA B) had already made several assassination attempts against him (Makarios) for this very same reason.

the completely unnecessary subject of re-affirming the already existing non partition / non enosis provision of the 1960 agreements, with the only purpose of putting Makarios on a difficult position due to the unstable situation within the GC community as a result of the pro-enosis actions, threats and preaching of the EOKA B and the Greek Junta NG officers.

The only reason why Makarios tried to kick the ball away and into the courts of the Greek Junta and Turkey for this (legally unnecessary) re-signing of a non partition / non enosis pact, instead of taking the responsibility himself, was because he was afraid that the EOKA B and the National Guard, acting upon the orders of the Junta, were going to immediately overthrow him on that basis.

the Turkish side who wanted to drag their feet on the issue of signing the agreed solution, by opening the completely unnecessary subject of re-affirming the already existing non partition / non enosis provision of the 1960 agreements

Was Makarios a saint??? Kifeas you make him sound like he strangled the TC community with love, wasnt this the man who liked to play with little boys?? Come on get real this was a man who pursued the Akritas plan supported EOKA B, danced with the Junta/National Guard and encouraged TCs to leave Cyprus strangling them with economic isolation is more like..

Plus again those silly TCs dragging their feet the simple Kifeas mentality TCs are to blame again...

I do not have time to waste with sciolist people who have perhaps read only a couple of Denktashic propaganda books like the Genocide files, the Kenan Evren and this Malcolm whatever one, and from their posting itself one can easily understand their ignorance and shallow depth knowledge.

I live to Bananiot to explain to you why your posting shows how ignorant, ill informed and confused you are!

[erolz]

In my role as moderator can I please remind everyone of the current rules of personal attacks and name calling

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Please send me or any other moderator a PM when you encounter such a case stating thread title and page number. The post will then be edited accordinly. Do not reply to the specific phrase do not quote it in your replies and do not comment on it. The reason is if you do then the moderators work becomes huge and endless.
We encourage a healthy exchange of opinions and disagreements are allowed! By all means challenge an opinion – but please do it respectfully. Name calling, and insults will not be tolerated. This includes the participation of a member by using an offensive nickname, or signature and the deliberate distortion of others nicknames.


2. Personal attacks.
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I do not want to edit peoples posts but will so if they continue to flaut or push the edges of these rules despite this request.

Thank you

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

do not have time to waste with sciolist people who have perhaps read only a couple of Denktashic propaganda books like the Genocide files, the Kenan Evren and this Malcolm whatever one, and from their posting itself one can easily understand their ignorance and shallow depth knowledge.

I live to Bananiot to explain to you why your posting shows how ignorant, ill informed and confused you are!

Thank you Kifeas, very constructive comments something put your nose out of joint or have I touched a raw nerve??? anyway you should review your own posts before calling someone ignorant, ill informed and confused Im sure the whole forum can help you out on that one

[Kifeas]

Kifeas

conveniently forgetting that during those days there was an EOKA B organisation and an entirely infested with Junta officers National Guard, who had given an oath to unite Cyprus with Greece and who vowed to chop Makarios head because he was negotiating a political settlement with the Turks, instead of promoting the goal of Enosis and who (EOKA B) had already made several assassination attempts against him (Makarios) for this very same reason.

the completely unnecessary subject of re-affirming the already existing non partition / non enosis provision of the 1960 agreements, with the only purpose of putting Makarios on a difficult position due to the unstable situation within the GC community as a result of the pro-enosis actions, threats and preaching of the EOKA B and the Greek Junta NG officers.

The only reason why Makarios tried to kick the ball away and into the courts of the Greek Junta and Turkey for this (legally unnecessary) re-signing of a non partition / non enosis pact, instead of taking the responsibility himself, was because he was afraid that the EOKA B and the National Guard, acting upon the orders of the Junta, were going to immediately overthrow him on that basis.

the Turkish side who wanted to drag their feet on the issue of signing the agreed solution, by opening the completely unnecessary subject of re-affirming the already existing non partition / non enosis provision of the 1960 agreements

Was Makarios a saint??? Kifeas you make him sound like he strangled the TC community with love, wasnt this the man who liked to play with little boys?? Come on get real this was a man who pursued the Akritas plan supported EOKA B, danced with the Junta/National Guard and encouraged TCs to leave Cyprus strangling them with economic isolation is more like..

Plus again those silly TCs dragging their feet the simple Kifeas mentality TCs are to blame again...

I do not have time to waste with sciolist people who have perhaps read only a couple of Denktashic propaganda books like the Genocide files, the Kenan Evren and this Malcolm whatever one, and from their posting itself one can easily understand their ignorance and shallow depth knowledge.

I live to Bananiot to explain to you why your posting shows how ignorant, ill informed and confused you are!

Meant to say Kenan Atakol from yialia village and not kenan Evren!l