Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

That's what Klerides said on TV 15 days ago during a 5 part by 2 hours each documentary on RIK1, and every GC in this forum who watched the documentary can verify it.

They can verify he said it which is not the same as verifying it's true.

[Bananiot]

Klerides gave an interview to "Politis" newspaper on July 15. This is what he has to say on the issue.

"It is a fact that in 1973 we came very close to a solution which improved Zurich. The Turks accepted many of our demands including the reduction in the % participation in government and public service from 70-30 to 80-20. In return we gave local self government. The sticky issue at the time was the one regarding separate municipalities. Denktash and Turkey asked for reiteration of the part of the 1960 Constitution which said that enosis and partition are excluded from the new state. I considered that the new agreement modified that of 1960. Thus, anything that does not change continues to remain valid. Makarios insisted that he would never again sign a document that exluded enosis. Then, the thought that prevailed was for a protocol to be signed between Turkey and Greece which would state that the two countries rejected enosis and partition. The Greek junta rejected this proposal".

[-mikkie2-]

So, quite frankly, we have a combination of the Junta refusing to re-confirm that enosis will not be an aim in the future (you expected a fascistic military regime to do otherwise?) and Makarios not wanting to sign a document that excluded enosis again.

So I think Klerides actually made a sensible suggestion that provisions in the treaty which did not change were and will be still valid. A sign of a mature politician. However, the Turks would have to share some blame as well for insisting on these things when from a legal perspective it was covered.

In any case, I think this shows that there was significant progress made in the past and it shows that our differences can be bridged AS LONG AS TURKEY KEEPS HER NOSE OUT OF IT! Greece has pretty much abandoned the GC's. I think Turkey is going through the process of abandoning the TC's as well.

[Bananiot]

I think you have missed the point. The Turkish side wanted to exclude both, enosis and partition. Our side, declined. Enosis for us was more important than partition for the Turkish side.

[-mikkie2-]

I think you have missed the point. The Turkish side wanted to exclude both, enosis and partition. Our side, declined. Enosis for us was more important than partition for the Turkish side.

Have I really?

Clerides clarified the situation at that time by reaffirming the obvious. It was left to the Greek junta and Turkey to sign any 'accords'. The Greek junta that refused! Not 'our' side as in the Greek Cypriots.

And I further qualified my statement by saying that Greece has now effectively abandoned us by leaving us to exclusively handle the problem ourselves, yet the Turkish side still exerts considerable influence on the TC's and that they too will start to abandon the Turkish Cypriots.

[Bananiot]

It was left to the Greek junta and Turkey to sign any 'accords'. The Greek junta that refused! Not 'our' side as in the Greek Cypriots.

That is wrong. It was left to the mother countries, only after Makarios refused to sign, on account that he did not want to exclude enosis for ever. Let's try to be impartial for a change and stop loading our shortcomings to the others. Had Makarios signed and not pursued the vision of enosis Cyprus today would have been one and undivided country.

As far as your hanch goes that Turkey will abandon the Turkish Cypriots just as Greece has abondoned us, then you might like to know that Greece has advised us prior and after the referendum and it does not have to shed more tears over spoilt brats.

[-mikkie2-]

As far as your hanch goes that Turkey will abandon the Turkish Cypriots just as Greece has abondoned us, then you might like to know that Greece has advised us prior and after the referendum and it does not have to shed more tears over spoilt brats.

Well don't you think the Turkish Cypriots are spoiled brats too? If you think defending our rights and existance is equivalent to being a spoiled brat then I really do fear for our country if people such as yourself end up being in the majority.

Clerides said that the original 1960 agreements would still be valid irrespective of signing a new accord or not. Those provisions that were not modified would still have effect legally and politically. I think that irrespective of what Makarios did or didn't do is besides the point!

[Bananiot]

It does not matter what Klerides believed. Makarios was the President and he only had to sign the damn thing that said enosis and partition are forever banned. He would have spared us all the agony. If the junta did not sign it because it was fascist, what is the excuse of Makarios? Why were the TC's willing to bury partition but Makarios insisted on the enosis vision? Could it be because we all, down at our hearts, had the same vision? Could it be that we willingly compromised our livehood while pursuing a dream that all level headed people knew that it would lead to disaster? Well, this is what spoilt brats do and expect others (Greece) to go to war in order to help us realise a lifelong ambition. Are TC's spoilt brats too? May be, but at least give them the benefit of the doubt on this one, since they agreed on everything, even the damnation of partition.

Do not worry, people like me are never "in the majority" and the Greek nation knows very well how to deal with rational people. Look at the fate of Venizelos, Trikoupis and Kapodistrias. They got what they deserved, from the majority!

[magikthrill]

That is wrong. It was left to the mother countries, only after Makarios refused to sign, on account that he did not want to exclude enosis for ever. Let's try to be impartial for a change and stop loading our shortcomings to the others. Had Makarios signed and not pursued the vision of enosis Cyprus today would have been one and undivided country.

claiming that Turkey would not have any goal to partition the island had this accord been signed sounds just as disillusional as someone saying the GCs had no goal to achieve enosis after 1960. you cannot be stupid enough to think so bananiot, can you?

[Bananiot]

The clever thing to do was to put Turkey to the test. What we did was moronic and let to disaster and its a pity, people after so much tears shed, cannot see this simple truth.