Cyprus-Forum.com

[fi]

What I don't understand is why we are always brought forward to complicated and "stupid" solutions to this problem.

The world scenery is getting tougher, globalization is taking over and we are forced with solutions that are going to create a state that's not going to be able to compete worldwide. We only live short lives and instead of making the best of the time we live on this earth we keep arguing about stupid ethnicities and petty differences.

Why isn't a fair, just, sane, functional and economical solution accepted e.g.:

- One state, one rule, one democracy, many voices
- Everybody gets their property back
- Everybody can move freely
- Everybody (of course) has equal rights
- All foreign forces leave the island and let us in peace

Wouldn’t this multicultural state that will join two people and give it by nature the strengths of both be wonderful? Won’t this merge of cultures produce an utopia.

And I don’t think that the Turkish Cypriots can have anything to worry about their rights being violated by a European state that has been functioning democratically for so many years now.

And besides we are all islanders and as islanders we are soft and understanding people with reason and I don’t think that anyone wants to cheat the other, so why don’t they let us work it out ourselves.

What’s your opinion on this?

[petethegreek]

I dont think that the problem lies with the people but with the polititions.

There is an old saying about polititions:

"They talk alot but say nothing."

[petethegreek]

Excues my manners.

Welcome to the forum!

[Viewpoint]

fi firstly welcome to the forum..

And I don’t think that the Turkish Cypriots can have anything to worry about their rights being violated by a European state that has been functioning democratically for so many years now.

and we should just take your word for it or GCs word, just like the GCs signature on the 1960 agreements.

What do you suggest we do to build trust??? because TCs do not trust GCs and the fact that the one man one vote unitary state syndrom most GCs have is none other than a GC State with TCs reduced to a minority which we will never accept.

[fi]

Thanks for the welcome!!!!
and yes unfortunately it partly to the politicians. I only wish that the Turkish Cypriots were free to decide for themselves and not have Turkey over their head all the time. What do our fellow TC compatriots think about this?

[fi]

Where didn't the GCs keep their word in 1960?

I don't understand why you don't like democracy? Is it bad to be a minority in a democratic state? Do you want more rights than you fellow compatriot? Is this more fair?

Do you prefer a crazy state with a million rules? Would you feel more free? Would it be better to have other countries dictating us what to do? Doesn't that make us all a minority?

[Viewpoint]

fi

Where didn't the GCs keep their word in 1960?

Have you not heard of the Akritas plan? and how the rights which we agreed in 1960 were according to GC to much and they planned to take them away and do other things to TCs. Even now GC forum members confirm that we were given to much and that it was not a fair plan nothing new there...

I don't understand why you don't like democracy? Is it bad to be a minority in a democratic state? Do you want more rights than you fellow compatriot? Is this more fair?

Democracy can be interpreted in many ways, whats acceptable to you may be totaly unacceptable to me. Would you want to be a minority in a Turkish Cypriot state in your own county??? we do not want to be under the control of GCs, we want equal politcal representation and security guarantees protecting the TCs community. We do not want to be reduced to a minortiy status in our own country under GC rule.

Do you prefer a crazy state with a million rules? Would you feel more free? Would it be better to have other countries dictating us what to do? Doesn't that make us all a minority?

Its not a matter of a millon rules you have already taken these on with EU I have stated what we want and do not want.
We do not trust GC and therefore need measures that will ensure no GC domination of the TC community...

[fi]

The GC have a thousand reasons not to trust the TC too, does that mean we have to include everybody else in the world into this issue to make us feel more secure. Isn't a democratical goverment and isn't the E.U. with it's mechanisms, it's courts etc. sufficient?

The GC didn't not try to force any changes. As you know Makarios gave the thirteen point plan, which the UK encouraged, to all interested parties (Turkey, Greece and UK) for review and approval. And of course would never make any party to accept it!

And the answer to your question is an honest yes, I would have no problem living as a minority, I would never ask for more than I was entitled to.

The old world of ethnically pure countries is rapidly dissapearing. Take the example of the US, does every minority ask for different treatment. It's just not how democracy works. And having lived in Spain and the UK for a long time I'm very proud with the state and amount of democracy we have in Cyprus.

Another point I want to make, it's never bad to discuss something, discussion even if people argue or disagree can do nothing but good! So I pretty happy I'm getting this feedback.

But what depresses me is that although the GC side has come clean with many of the occurences of the past, the TC sidehas been very secretive and not sure if you've ever heard our side of the story... not saying that everything is true but in a democracy the lies should come out in the end.

[fi]

oh viewpoint a question which I'm very curious of

What are your fears a GC goverment would do?

[erolz]

Firslty hello fi and welcome to the forums

Why isn't a fair, just, sane, functional and economical solution accepted e.g.:

- One state, one rule, one democracy, many voices
- Everybody gets their property back
- Everybody can move freely
- Everybody (of course) has equal rights
- All foreign forces leave the island and let us in peace

Wouldn’t this multicultural state that will join two people and give it by nature the strengths of both be wonderful? Won’t this merge of cultures produce an utopia.

I would agree with you that these are worthy _end goals_ to be aimed for in Cyprus. however in my view we can not just implement them today, given the history in Cyprus and expect everything to be 'rosy'.

And I don’t think that the Turkish Cypriots can have anything to worry about their rights being violated by a European state that has been functioning democratically for so many years now.

Is it not more important in this regard what the TC think and not GC? The simple fact is history has taught us through painful and hard lessons that even in a legal and democratic state (such as we had in 1960 agreements) GC have a capacity to persue purely GC interests in Cyprus at the expesne of TC rights.
Essentialy you are saying 'trust us we will not do anything to harm you even though we did in the past and even though we refuse to give you any effecitve protections agains such harm'. Unfortunately given the history and the realites of the situation today such an appraoch is just not acceptable to TC.

And besides we are all islanders and as islanders we are soft and understanding people with reason and I don’t think that anyone wants to cheat the other, so why don’t they let us work it out ourselves.

Again whilst admiring your idealism I have to point out that historicaly we are not (all) a soft understanding people. We are a people with a history of division and diametricaly opposed desires based on ethnic lines and of the use of illegal violence and murder against each other.