Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murtaza]

Piratis

No be realist, Serbs and PKK is your friend(You should honour with your friends?). Bulgarians had not problem with anyone.

[fi]

People why don't you stick to the point, it's good to let of some steam but the subject in this post is different.

I asked a couple of questions after your feedback:

1) What do you think of Britains effort to grab more power for itself in plan that was supposed to solve the Cyprus problem?

2) What are the TC fears of a democratic state (please don't post the same about the debatable past, what are the fears for the future)?

[Bananiot]

How exactly did Britain try to grab more power for itself?

[fi]

British bases currently don't have a right territorial waters and the like, the ANAN plan gave them territorial waters and more rights. Funnily enough in the area where oil has been found...

[erolz]

1) What do you think of Britains effort to grab more power for itself in plan that was supposed to solve the Cyprus problem?

I am not aware of any such provisions in the Annan plan? I am aware that the UK govrnment made an offer to return parts of the sovreign bases area to Cypriots to help aid a solution between GC and TC

2) What are the TC fears of a democratic state (please don't post the same about the debatable past, what are the fears for the future)?

My answer remains the same as when you ask it earlier in this thread

"In simple terms our fears are that a GC government may persue and impose purely GC desires on us against our will and to our detriment as a community and as indivduals."

[fi]

Have you read the Anan plan? It does exactly that, very sad.

But what are those fears. What do you think could happen specifically, it's no good just saying all this generic stuff.

[erolz]

British bases currently don't have a right territorial waters and the like, the ANAN plan gave them territorial waters and more rights. Funnily enough in the area where oil has been found...

I am no expert on this issue and in general I personally feel that the issue of the BSB in Cyprus is a 'small' issue compared with the much larger issues we have between GC and TC.

That said having a quick look at the treaty of establihment annex A section III it would seem to my 'non expert' eye that the UK does currently have some agreed and legal rights to waters around the SB areas?

SECTION 31. The Republic of Cyprus shall not claim, as part of its territorial sea, waters lying between Line I and Line II as described inparagraph 2 of this Section, or between Line III and Line IV as described therein. 2. The lines for the purposes of paragraph 1 of this Section shall be as follows:— Line I: From the position on the low-water line Iying in a 163º direction from Point No. 57D/ 1, as defined inSchedule A to this Annex, in a 163º direction for 6.85 miles; then in a 207º direction for 3 miles; and then in a 204º direction. Line II: From the position on the low-water line Iying in a 108½º direction from Point No. 59A/5, as defined inSchedule A to this Annex, in a 108½º direction for 7.8 miles; and then in a 136º direction. Line III: From the position on the low-water line Iying in a 170º direction from Point No. 41B/10, as defined in Schedule B tothis Annex, in a 170º direction for 3.8 miles; then in a 136º direction for 3.1 miles; and then in a 156º direction. Line IV: From the position on the low-water line Iying in a 103º direction from Point No. 42B/3, as defined in Schedule B to thisAnnex, in a 103º direction for 0.9 miles; then in a 150º direction for 6.3 miles; and then in a 176º direction.3. In paragraph 2 of this Section, the distances quoted are in sea miles reckoned at 1,852 international metres to one sea mile, and

[sadik]

Why isn't a fair, just, sane, functional and economical solution accepted e.g.:

- One state, one rule, one democracy, many voices
- Everybody gets their property back
- Everybody can move freely
- Everybody (of course) has equal rights
- All foreign forces leave the island and let us in peace

Hi fi...

This is all fine except in a place like Cyprus, where people are very strongly polarized, and where people mostly act together as communities even when they do not agree the direction their community is going, how can you guarantee the basic human rights of a numerical minority?

So if TCs are 20% of the population, is it likely that 20% of the time a TC will be elected as the president of the RoC. Will 20% of the important positions within the government be filled with TCs? Will I have equal opportunity in every aspect of life when I'm competing with the GCs? It is unfortunately not very likely in such an atmosphere, where our identities are NOT being Turkish or NOT being Greek as much as being Turkish or Greek.

We need a federation so that our fears are releived, our rights are protected, and we'll each get enough space in our activities as communities so we will not step on each others toes. Of course we should do this in a way that will respect our basic human rights.

[erolz]

Have you read the Anan plan? It does exactly that, very sad.

I have not studied the annan plan in detail in regard to the sovreign bases. If you can provide me with a link or quote of the relevant section I will be more than happy to share my views on this section.

But what are those fears. What do you think could happen specifically, it's no good just saying all this generic stuff.

I fear that GC may pass legislation in a 'unitary' cyprus that materialy affects the TC community differently to TC, and against the will of TC.

If you want me to speculate on a specific hypothetical example of such legislation I will do so, as long as you agree to not come back and say 'but thats all hypothetical' and dismiss it as such.

Let's imagine legisaltion that seeks to limit or place extra conditions on foreign investment in Cyprus from countries outside the EU. You may think such a hypothetical senario is unrealisitic nut many countries have enacted just such legisaltion so to me it is perfectly reasonable to imagine that Cyprus might wish to do the same.

Now lets assume that TC business get 70% of their foreign investment from non EU countries and GC businesses get only 5% of their foreign investment from non EU countries.

In your purely 'unitary' Cyprus model there would be nothing that TC could do to stop a GC numerical majority imposing this legisaltion on them despite the fact that it would affect TC businesses to a much greater degree than TC ones. I want a system that would give the TC community a right to block such differential legisaltion. Thius the TC community could say 'hang on a minute this will prejudice TC businesses vs GG businesses - lets review and revise this legislation so that it does not have such a comparative deterimental affect on TC vs GC, or we will not be able to give our consent'.

This is just one 'hypothetical' senario. I can think of others and I am concereded also for the potential of such differential legislation in areas that I can not today forsee - for I am not able to see the future or double guess all it's possible course.

[Piratis]

We need a federation so that our fears are releived, our rights are protected, and we'll each get enough space in our activities as communities so we will not step on each others toes.

If TCs get a federal state of their own then they are "steping on the GC toes" because Cyprus has a GC majority in all areas.

The type of federation demanded by TCs requires the violations of the human rights of GCs. Also TCs are not asking for 18% or 20%, but they are asking for 29% land and 50% power.

This is all fine except in a place like Cyprus,

And why is that? Because Cyprus is the only country in the world were communities had conflicts? This is not the case. Such conflicts existed in many countries and in no case the solution was to ethnically cleanse the majority from one area to create a state for the minority so they can be kept separetly.
The solution is application of human rights and democracy for everybody. This is what first world countries do (within their countries). Making Cyprus a third world banana republic is definetly not the solution.

By the way, those that insist that it is imposible for the two communities to live together and two separate countries/states are needed, would they support the same thing if the land they grabed was half (9%) instead of double (36%)?
I am not going to use a word that apparently offended some people, but for me it is obvious that the main reason that TCs want this separation is because they can gain on our loss. Go ask them if they would accept this partition if they were the ones to lose from such thing.