Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

After reading the posts of members of this forum who would rather die than to be a Cypriot without a prefix (Greek or Turkish) I want to know why these people talk about their unproven "Hellenic" or "Turkic" origins as if it were yesterday when their ancestors arrived in Cyprus.

Cyprus is one of the oldest nation's on earth yet the Cypriots are more unsettled than any nation I have seen.

In America, there are few who call themselves English American nowadays. Few look to England as a motherland. Nobody gives cares about the Pilgrim Fathers on their ship called the Mayflower.

In Australia, few can remember their cut throat ancestors shipped from the slumbs of East London.

Few New Zealanders remember and Anglophone Canadians remember Scotland. "Nova Scotia" and "Scottish symbols" are kept for prestige.

Even French Canadians many of whom insist on being called Canadien Francais or Quebecois - no longer see France as a motherland. They are confident in their own skin and proud of their differences with France.

African Americans respect and love Africa but they too are comfortable in their environment. They have no desire to move back to Africa or unite with it. The environment they have lived in for nearly 500 years is home.

White South Africans too have forgotten about the Netherlands and know more about African wildlife and farming in an African environment than about catching Herring in the Ijsselmeer (Zuiderzee).

So why do we Cypriots older than all these new nations look to "Greece or Turkey" as 'motherlands.' Keep a blinded loyalty to Ankara and Athens even after they have screwed us over? Are these Cypriots stupid or getting paid, or perhaps I am missing something here?

Our ancestors came to Cyprus from numerous place (some of which don't exist today as empires) over 2000 years? Who remembers the Myceneans and the Phoenicians? What of the the Crusades - do you think they happened yesterday? Does anybody recall 1571- anybody? Or how about remembers 1750 - you've gotta remember that year?

It is time Cypriots finally settled down in Cyprus and accepted it as home without looking overseas for labels. We are Cypriots with the same eating habits and same destiny to share this island.

Ömer, everything must be evaluated and anlyzed within it's unigue circumstances... you very well know why... Otherwise, what you do is comparing apples, oranges and lemons with each other; fancying any of them very much and wishing them all taste and smell the same with the one you liked...

I respect you struggling for what you believe and wishing you good luck...

Like it or not; Cyprus is on a geo-pelotically important location and if there wasn't any "motherlands", this right winged dominated island would have been a satelite state of superpowers... it would have been the "aircraft carrier" of US&EU... There would still have been a conflict among US-EU controlled right wingers and Russia-China controlled left wingers even if there wouldn't be any ethnic conflict...

Is that what you want or you are dreaming the so-called truly independent Cyprus where all citizens call themselves Cypriots, live in peace and powerful enough to resist against the super powers of the world... Even Israel leans on US in what utopic world Cyprus would be trully independent with no ethnic conflict among it's citizens?

If it is the latter; keep dreaming and wasting your time by ignoring the realities...

[Paphitis]

The mistake is to treat the Greek Cypriots the same as the Turkish Cypriots when making comparisons to colonialists of Australia and America etc.

It is historically incorrect to lump the GCs and TCs together as far as this comparison goes.

The Greek Cypriots have continuity with the island dating from the earliest times of budding civilisations and possess a continuum of historical records and artefacts which demonstrate the beauty of this emergence.

The Turkish Cypriots on the other hand are like those Colonialists you speak of (the white supremacists of South Africa, the Europeans of USA etc). It is up to the TCs to abandon their "roots" and integrate with the natives if they want to become part of the true Cypriot population. It's not up to Greek Cypriots to give up their history and ethnicity to satisfy recent arrivals like Turks. After all, there is another wave of more recent Turkish arrivals. Lending further proof to the TCs' colonialist, recent appearances on this island.

I take issue when you refer to "colonialists of Australia or America".

By the same token, one might say that the Greek Cypriots are also "colonialists" that do not have more continuity than the indigenous Aboriginal Cypriots (Eteocypriots).

[Omer Seyhan]

After reading the posts of members of this forum who would rather die than to be a Cypriot without a prefix (Greek or Turkish) I want to know why these people talk about their unproven "Hellenic" or "Turkic" origins as if it were yesterday when their ancestors arrived in Cyprus.

Cyprus is one of the oldest nation's on earth yet the Cypriots are more unsettled than any nation I have seen.

In America, there are few who call themselves English American nowadays. Few look to England as a motherland. Nobody gives cares about the Pilgrim Fathers on their ship called the Mayflower.

In Australia, few can remember their cut throat ancestors shipped from the slumbs of East London.

Few New Zealanders remember and Anglophone Canadians remember Scotland. "Nova Scotia" and "Scottish symbols" are kept for prestige.

Even French Canadians many of whom insist on being called Canadien Francais or Quebecois - no longer see France as a motherland. They are confident in their own skin and proud of their differences with France.

African Americans respect and love Africa but they too are comfortable in their environment. They have no desire to move back to Africa or unite with it. The environment they have lived in for nearly 500 years is home.

White South Africans too have forgotten about the Netherlands and know more about African wildlife and farming in an African environment than about catching Herring in the Ijsselmeer (Zuiderzee).

So why do we Cypriots older than all these new nations look to "Greece or Turkey" as 'motherlands.' Keep a blinded loyalty to Ankara and Athens even after they have screwed us over? Are these Cypriots stupid or getting paid, or perhaps I am missing something here?

Our ancestors came to Cyprus from numerous place (some of which don't exist today as empires) over 2000 years? Who remembers the Myceneans and the Phoenicians? What of the the Crusades - do you think they happened yesterday? Does anybody recall 1571- anybody? Or how about remembers 1750 - you've gotta remember that year?

It is time Cypriots finally settled down in Cyprus and accepted it as home without looking overseas for labels. We are Cypriots with the same eating habits and same destiny to share this island.

Ömer, everything must be evaluated and anlyzed within it's unigue circumstances... you very well know why... Otherwise, what you do is comparing apples, oranges and lemons with each other; fancying any of them very much and wishing them all taste and smell the same with the one you liked...

I respect you struggling for what you believe and wishing you good luck...

Like it or not; Cyprus is on a geo-pelotically important location and if there wasn't any "motherlands", this right winged dominated island would have been a satelite state of superpowers... it would have been the "aircraft carrier" of US&EU... There would still have been a conflict among US-EU controlled right wingers and Russia-China controlled left wingers even if there wouldn't be any ethnic conflict...

Is that what you want or you are dreaming the so-called truly independent Cyprus where all citizens call themselves Cypriots, live in peace and powerful enough to resist against the super powers of the world... Even Israel leans on US in what utopic world Cyprus would be trully independent with no ethnic conflict among it's citizens?

If it is the latter; keep dreaming and wasting your time by ignoring the realities...

But we are all fruit....

[repulsewarrior]

the issue boils down to our identity as Individuals, and as well our identity as Persons.

in Cyprus, with the gift of our Freedom our challenge is to define the Principal of Bicommunality for the rest of Mankind. this is not a "Greek" "Turkish" issue.

with its definition, the world will have a clearer vision of State and Nation, at least, what is hoped for is that we as Humans can define for ourselves such concepts in a manner that can be emulated.

it is the world that is unsettled, in Cyprus it is a symptom that can be seen.

[Omer Seyhan]

the issue boils down to our identity as Individuals, and as well our identity as Persons.

in Cyprus, with the gift of our Freedom our challenge is to define the Principal of Bicommunality for the rest of Mankind. this is not a "Greek" "Turkish" issue.

with its definition, the world will have a clearer vision of State and Nation, at least, what is hoped for is that we as Humans can define for ourselves such concepts in a manner that can be emulated.

it is the world that is unsettled, in Cyprus it is a symptom that can be seen.

My understanding is that anybody who is a Cypriot citizen is a Cypriot. It matters not if they are of Turkish, Greek, Armenian or Chinese descent. This should be our emphasis...

Beyond that you can add a prefix if you so wish but you can't have a situation where officially prefixes dominate the state and "Cypriot" by itself as an identity is ridiculed by Cypriots and not encouraged by the Cypriot stare. This is a ludicrous situation.

YES, I agree with you 100% that identity is not just ethnic, you can create an identity around anything.

I once asked a trade unionist what he was and he replied "I'm a Socialist" and he spoke of his "brothers in Columbia." His life is clearly centred around his group of Socialist friends.

I asked a musician who has travelled the world performing what he was, and he created his identity around music. anything else would not interest him with the same passion.

I also asked a writer what her identity was and she spoke to me about Romanticism and Moliere and how it has influenced her during the course of her life.

Gay people often form their identity around their close-knit gay community rather than with their greater national community.

But in terms of our identity as citizens and in terms of our national loyalty, we must be encouraged to be Cypriot. Every state does this - Britain, Canada, France, Greece, Turkey.

[repulsewarrior]

the identity we have as a citizen quite rightly is the concern of the State; in it we are Individuals.

however it is our task to define Bicommunal which has as its countervailing power the right of citizens as Persons.

thus if Cypriots had as their governance National Assemblies, as well as a Federal Government, we could for ourselves substantiate the Rights which are Universal to us, united and defend them, while in communities, as majorities these Principals can find distinctive expressions.

...if we truly seek Bicommunal living, it is not possible to have Two Governments; there should be One or many.

Omer, i think you have not read my manifesto...