Cyprus-Forum.com

[Cap]

Ian Welsh
The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine



Holy Sweet Lord, Turkey has announced they will send another flotilla to Gaza—escorted by the Turkish Navy!
2010 May 31
by Ian Welsh

If they actually do this, it is the very definition of throwing down.

Wow.

Does Israel want a war with Turkey? They can’t win it, short of using nukes, and Turkey is a NATO member, if Israel attacks NATO ships, Turkey can invoke Article V (in fact, they can invoke it already, since the ships were attacked by a non NATO power on the high seas.) If Turkey does so, of course NATO nations will refuse, but doing so will break NATO.

This is high stakes.

Update: I might add that in the case of a war between Turkey and Israel, if Turkey is serious, unless Israel uses nukes, my money is on the Turks. They have a huge armored corp, and the nations between Israel and Turkey aren’t going to say no if Turkey asks for access (because if they do, Turkey will just roll right through them.) Also if Turkey and Israel goes to war, it’s at least 50/50 the Egypt jumps in as well.

Israel is really playing with fire on this one.

Update 2: See Sean-Paul’s comments on the domestic reasons of Turkey’s reaction, and what the death of the Israeli/Turkish Entente means.

Update 3: See this analysis (h/t Pogge) for the legalities. Short of it is that if the act wasn’t rogue, then this was an act of war, not an act of piracy.

[shahmaran]

Okay, let us see. In your opinion, would the Turkish army allow an international flotilla to approach the phantom town of Famagusta with the aim of putting pressure on Turkey to return it to its inhabitants? How will the army welcome these people? With rose petals? I would pose the question in the reverse, had a prodominantly TC town been condemned to a slow death as a result of a blockade by a stronger militarily GC administration.

Try to be as objective as possible.

Honestly?!

As many evil things as Turkey might have done, for something that has this much coverage globally, she would not be stupid enough to do what Israhell did.

They would have probably let them through or stopped them in a non lethal manner, which was highly possible but the IDF did exactly what they always do, just shoot the crap out of everyone.

As long as they are supported by the US, they really do not care, simply because they know they can get away with anything as long as they call it "self defense" along with some gibberish about anti-Semitism and the holocaust.

Turkey does not have that luxury to fall back on every time she is in trouble.

She paid for entering Cyprus and we are still paying for their peace operation, while the fucking Jews murder more people than the population of this island while making sure everyone is eating their shitty vegetables from the other side of the continent.

If anything, it is us who needs a god dam flotilla!

[YFred]

If Turkey engages in war with aliens threating our planet, we would side with the aliens ... plonkers!

Just think of it as Israel and Cyprus joining forces against a mutual enemy - the terrorist nation of Turkey for the benefit of global and regional security.

Admit it Bananiot! If Israel gets so pissed off and then lashes out at Turkey altering the balance in Cyprus, then you would fly the Israeli flag the very next day.

My fellow Cypriots, it is time to develop new alliances.

Paphitis, you have to realise by now that Azrail has bitten off more than it can chew. I would not bet on Azrail attacking any escort ships in international waters.

Let's be realistic Deniz. The disguised Turkish MIT "activists" attacked the IDF boarding party and the IDF was forced to defend itself against Turkish aggression.

Are you saying that when the TA 'invaded' Cyprus the GCs had NO right to defend themselves.? I am surprised at you

Deniz, you can only get so much political milage from the fact that the IDF intercepted and boarded the flotilla in International Waters. I think you will find that some countries, Australia amongst them, have been doing just that for decades, mostly without incident.

Now, we have seen the released footage. "Activists" were clubbing IDF soldiers, 2 were thrown into a life boat, some were stabbed with knives, and there were some gunshots heard. Do you honestly believe that the IDF would just sit idle and not react? Do you honestly believe the IDF will apologise for breaking International Law and leave after their soldiers were clubbed, stabbed and shot at? I don't think so!

I know the Azrailites. They wont apologise. We have seen in the past their bloody minded attitude towards the Palestinians. How easily the Chatilla massacres of the Palestinians are forgotten. The breaking of arms of young Palestinian boys, your brave IDF shelling civilians with such brutality, who forgets them? The activists on these boats had had enough warning and knew what to expect. They were determined to stop this piracy by the IDF. What gunshots? You believe the Azrailis you will believe anything. They cocked up big time, now they are squirming their way out of it. They will succeed only because of the Americans. Fancy the yanks telling the Azrailis to conduct their own investigation. I dont know why they should bother. Perhaps it was prepared before they began dropping onto the ships. Damn them all.

Deniz, be fair, they asked the Israelis do do an independent investigation?
What exactly is there to investigate, the bastards attacked an aid ship in the high sees. This is exactly what is wrong with the UN. The 5 members use it for their personal interests, sooner it's dismantled the better we'll be.
Either we have a democratic UN or no UN at all. It has passed it's sell-by date long ago.

[Gasman]

I will believe anything that comes out of Israel when they get rid of their 'unique' CENSORSHIP.

[B25]

If Turkey engages in war with aliens threating our planet, we would side with the aliens ... plonkers!

Just think of it as Israel and Cyprus joining forces against a mutual enemy - the terrorist nation of Turkey for the benefit of global and regional security.

Admit it Bananiot! If Israel gets so pissed off and then lashes out at Turkey altering the balance in Cyprus, then you would fly the Israeli flag the very next day.

My fellow Cypriots, it is time to develop new alliances.

Paphitis, you have to realise by now that Azrail has bitten off more than it can chew. I would not bet on Azrail attacking any escort ships in international waters.

Let's be realistic Deniz. The disguised Turkish MIT "activists" attacked the IDF boarding party and the IDF was forced to defend itself against Turkish aggression.

Are you saying that when the TA 'invaded' Cyprus the GCs had NO right to defend themselves.? I am surprised at you

Deniz, you can only get so much political milage from the fact that the IDF intercepted and boarded the flotilla in International Waters. I think you will find that some countries, Australia amongst them, have been doing just that for decades, mostly without incident.

Now, we have seen the released footage. "Activists" were clubbing IDF soldiers, 2 were thrown into a life boat, some were stabbed with knives, and there were some gunshots heard. Do you honestly believe that the IDF would just sit idle and not react? Do you honestly believe the IDF will apologise for breaking International Law and leave after their soldiers were clubbed, stabbed and shot at? I don't think so!

I know the Azrailites. They wont apologise. We have seen in the past their bloody minded attitude towards the Palestinians. How easily the Chatilla massacres of the Palestinians are forgotten. The breaking of arms of young Palestinian boys, your brave IDF shelling civilians with such brutality, who forgets them? The activists on these boats had had enough warning and knew what to expect. They were determined to stop this piracy by the IDF. What gunshots? You believe the Azrailis you will believe anything. They cocked up big time, now they are squirming their way out of it. They will succeed only because of the Americans. Fancy the yanks telling the Azrailis to conduct their own investigation. I dont know why they should bother. Perhaps it was prepared before they began dropping onto the ships. Damn them all.

Deniz, be fair, they asked the Israelis do do an independent investigation?
What exactly is there to investigate, the bastards attacked an aid ship in the high sees. This is exactly what is wrong with the UN. The 5 members use it for their personal interests, sooner it's dismantled the better we'll be.
Either we have a democratic UN or no UN at all. It has passed it's sell-by date long ago.

Fucking classic, you are guilty of violation god knows how many UN resolutions and you have the cheek to denounce it for not doing enough. Hold on my sides are splitting, oh freddie you done me know

Deniz, you are one to talk about shelling the palastinians, when your F country was napalming the GC civilans that was 'ok'. You people just stink of hypocricy you have no right to lambast israel for her current actions, you are guilty of doing exactly that.

The bully (turkey) needs a bloody nose to bring her down a couple of pegs, as Israel is the one to do it. Lets see you go running to the UN/NATO and wherever the hell else you want.
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Bloody jokers the lot of you.

[DT.]

Okay, let us see. In your opinion, would the Turkish army allow an international flotilla to approach the phantom town of Famagusta with the aim of putting pressure on Turkey to return it to its inhabitants? How will the army welcome these people? With rose petals? I would pose the question in the reverse, had a prodominantly TC town been condemned to a slow death as a result of a blockade by a stronger militarily GC administration.

Try to be as objective as possible.

Honestly?!

As many evil things as Turkey might have done, for something that has this much coverage globally, she would not be stupid enough to do what Israhell did.

They would have probably let them through or stopped them in a non lethal manner, which was highly possible but the IDF did exactly what they always do, just shoot the crap out of everyone.

As long as they are supported by the US, they really do not care, simply because they know they can get away with anything as long as they call it "self defense" along with some gibberish about anti-Semitism and the holocaust.

Turkey does not have that luxury to fall back on every time she is in trouble.

She paid for entering Cyprus and we are still paying for their peace operation, while the fucking Jews murder more people than the population of this island while making sure everyone is eating their shitty vegetables from the other side of the continent.

If anything, it is us who needs a god dam flotilla!

In 96 100's of motorcyclists gathered from 20 different countries in Berlin. They rode all the way down to Cyprus to demonstrate against the continuing occupation of this island.

2 demonstrators were murdered by Turkish/TC police and millitary. Both murders were caught on CNN.

[Gasman]

Can't understand the wetting of knickers at the thought of getting Israel on side as an ally to oust Turkey from Cyprus.

The Oracle of your forum has decreed long ago that you have all you need right now:

We not only have Europe, but Russia and China now too:D

Turkey is dead!

CYPRUS the darling of a new world order.

It is proving pivotal in amalgamating the major Powers of the World.

Thanks to past efforts and the ties of our new President, we are central to links between the EU, US, Russia and China.
The New World Order is Born .... our friends!
Now ... all together Turks go home!

For the first time in World History ..... we have united the proletariat with the bourgeoisie with the capitalists with the socialists ... Everyone has been united by us except for the Turks ... they are isolated from the New World Order until they leave Cyprus ... (then we might think about letting them in)

Previously the US did not care two cents for Cyprus compared to Turkey.
We lacked gravitas.

Now, with the full weight of Russia and China behind us, we are a much more attractive package.

They have to sit up and listen.

So now we have to make some serious noises about removing those Turks.

Nope! Cannot see a mention of Israel anywhere there lol!

[YFred]

Okay, let us see. In your opinion, would the Turkish army allow an international flotilla to approach the phantom town of Famagusta with the aim of putting pressure on Turkey to return it to its inhabitants? How will the army welcome these people? With rose petals? I would pose the question in the reverse, had a prodominantly TC town been condemned to a slow death as a result of a blockade by a stronger militarily GC administration.

Try to be as objective as possible.

Honestly?!

As many evil things as Turkey might have done, for something that has this much coverage globally, she would not be stupid enough to do what Israhell did.

They would have probably let them through or stopped them in a non lethal manner, which was highly possible but the IDF did exactly what they always do, just shoot the crap out of everyone.

As long as they are supported by the US, they really do not care, simply because they know they can get away with anything as long as they call it "self defense" along with some gibberish about anti-Semitism and the holocaust.

Turkey does not have that luxury to fall back on every time she is in trouble.

She paid for entering Cyprus and we are still paying for their peace operation, while the fucking Jews murder more people than the population of this island while making sure everyone is eating their shitty vegetables from the other side of the continent.

If anything, it is us who needs a god dam flotilla!

In 96 100's of motorcyclists gathered from 20 different countries in Berlin. They rode all the way down to Cyprus to demonstrate against the continuing occupation of this island.

2 demonstrators were murdered by Turkish/TC police and millitary. Both murders were caught on CNN.

Those two unfortunate souls learned a very valuable lesson about life. The people who put them up to it shoulder the blame for their death as much as the murderers in equal measure.

[Oracle]

Those two unfortunate souls learned a very valuable lesson about life. .

You fucked up idiot!

People do not "learn a lesson" after they have been brutally killed for exercising their rights to freedom of expression.

Bloody stupid Turks! Who will rid us of this menace?

[YFred]

Those two unfortunate souls learned a very valuable lesson about life. .

You fucked up idiot!

People do not "learn a lesson" after they have been brutally killed for exercising their rights to freedom of expression.

Bloody stupid Turks! Who will rid us of this menace?

Feeling Guilty are we sending two young people to their death. What did you think was going to be the reaction?
You have stolen my young life, you have stolen my land and you have stolen my country. Lady being fucked up is something you should be familiar with. Unfortunately me being a man of some substance, I view it from the other point of view.