Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers

Make up your own minds...

Cap,
Every single piece of video footage covering the attack, with the exception of a turkish TV and an al-Jazeera excerpt, have been provided by and through the Israeli military censor. Those some Israeli IDF videos have been played over and over again on all the world's television networks. Effectively there is no other story of the attack on the flotilla except that provided by the Israeli state. (only today are some other eye-witness accounts beginning to come out). You cannot reasonably ask people to make up their minds on the basis of a monopoly.

The evidence provided by the Israelis looks pretty conclusive. The 'activists' were grabbing the Israeli soldiers as the repelled down from the chopper, flung them to the deck and started to beat them up with metal rods and sticks. The fact that the IDF did not react earlier is clear enough indication to me, that they had no intention of violence, as is usually the case in such situations. When the CO is shocked to see that the lives of his soldiers are now in danger, then the decision was made to use proportional force.

It is only natural that the "activists" will provide 'eye witness' accounts of 'Israeli aggression'.

This is what happened:
1) IDF board vessel in International Waters,
2) 'activists' attack IDF which is basically an invitation to the IDF to open fire, and
3) IDF open fire and kill 9 'activists'.

Very sad that 9 should die. And the biggest losers in this political point scoring debacle under the guise of 'humanitarian aid, are the Palestinians as per usual.

The activists actions were an invitation to open fire. They might as well have tattooed "PLEASE SHOOT ME" on their foreheads! And that is exactly what the IDF did!

Turkey should be ashamed of itself for this latest bloodbath!

Well chap an israeli Spokesperson has just admitted they used disproportionate force against the flotilla.
Also all detained from the flotilla hve been released without charge...

Clearly the Israelis have made a few mistakes in the past especially in the epsionage area.. including a couple in Cyprus.

* 1973 - Mossad assassins shoot dead a Moroccan-born waiter in Norway, mistaking him for one of the Palestinian masterminds of an attack on the 1972 Munich Olympics in which 11 Israeli athletes died. Five Mossad officers are tried, but eventually released. Israel offers compensation to the waiter's family.

* 1985 - U.S. Navy analyst Jonathan Pollard is arrested for passing intelligence to Lakam, an Israeli agency specializing in scientific cooperation. Israel apologizes to the United States and dismantles Lakam. Pollard is sentenced to life in prison.

* 1987 - Britain protests to Israel about what London calls the misuse by "Israeli authorities" of forged British passports, and says it received assurances there would be no recurrence.

* 1991 - Four Israelis are arrested during an apparent attempt to bug the Iranian embassy in Cyprus. They are released for lack of evidence.

* 1997 - Two Mossad assassins are captured by Jordanian authorities after a failed attempt to kill Khaled Meshaal, a leader of the Islamic militant group Hamas. They are sent home after Israel frees jailed Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin.

* 1998 - A group of Israelis is discovered trying to tap the phones of a suspected Lebanese Hezbollah militant in Switzerland. In a closed-door trial, one Israeli, described in the media as a Mossad officer, is fined and given a suspended jail sentence. His three accomplices are released.

- In Cyprus, two suspected Mossad officers are arrested and charged with spying on sensitive military installations. They are released after nine months in prison under a plea bargain.

* 2004 - Two Israelis are sentenced to six months in jail by an Auckland court after they admit trying to obtain a New Zealand passport fraudulently. Wellington suspects they are from the Mossad and suspends relations with Israel in protest. A year later, Israel apologizes to New Zealand, which restores ties.

* 2010 - UAE police say they issued international arrest warrants for suspects in the killing of Mabhouh, who include German, British, French and Irish passport-holders. Two Palestinians are also held by the UAE for suspected complicity.
One Also only has to google how many pressmen have been shot and killed by the IDF (and how many soldiers were charged ) to see why people have their doubts about the IDF and israels intentions...or the truthfulness of their actions..

As statements and facts are being issued almost hourly, this is still unfolding so lets wait and see if there is going to be an independant inquiry.

I base my view on this incident and this incident alone.

As far as I am concerned, proportional force was used. The CO had a difficult decision to make and he took his time in making it.

There is only so much that can be tolerated, and when you see that your buddies lives are in the balance, then all bets are off.

[Paphitis]

Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers

Make up your own minds...

Cap,
Every single piece of video footage covering the attack, with the exception of a turkish TV and an al-Jazeera excerpt, have been provided by and through the Israeli military censor. Those some Israeli IDF videos have been played over and over again on all the world's television networks. Effectively there is no other story of the attack on the flotilla except that provided by the Israeli state. (only today are some other eye-witness accounts beginning to come out). You cannot reasonably ask people to make up their minds on the basis of a monopoly.

The evidence provided by the Israelis looks pretty conclusive. The 'activists' were grabbing the Israeli soldiers as the repelled down from the chopper, flung them to the deck and started to beat them up with metal rods and sticks. The fact that the IDF did not react earlier is clear enough indication to me, that they had no intention of violence, as is usually the case in such situations. When the CO is shocked to see that the lives of his soldiers are now in danger, then the decision was made to use proportional force.

It is only natural that the "activists" will provide 'eye witness' accounts of 'Israeli aggression'.

This is what happened:
1) IDF board vessel in International Waters,
2) 'activists' attack IDF which is basically an invitation to the IDF to open fire, and
3) IDF open fire and kill 9 'activists'.

Very sad that 9 should die. And the biggest losers in this political point scoring debacle under the guise of 'humanitarian aid', are the Palestinians as per usual.

The activists actions were an invitation to open fire. They might as well have tattooed "PLEASE SHOOT ME" on their foreheads! And that is exactly what the IDF did!

Turkey should be ashamed of itself for this latest bloodbath!

Thank God I believe you have a sense of humour Paphitis.

Deniz, I am serious. This is my view on these events.

I am very sad about the tragic loss of life. And I will criticize Israeli aggression where applicable. I am not a supporter of Israeli policies and humanitarian crimes committed against the Palestinians.

But, we need to be very reasonable as to what actually happened aboard the Mavi Marmara. I am only interested in the facts and will post accordingly in such serious matters.

The Israelis have boarded vessels that have tried to violate the Gaza Strip embargo before, and no one was killed. This should've been the case here as well.

We care for the facts and the truth. Do we really care what your view is on this?
I think not until the full facts are known.

Then we can discuss it to death. So you say you are pilot? Interesting, got no furkin brains but hey never mind, nobody is perfect.

Listen here dipshit!

The IDF reacted the same way any other country would have.

The Aussies are very experienced in such situations, and our soldiers are very well trained and it all boils down to proportional force, which hopefully is not lethal.

[denizaksulu]

Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers

Make up your own minds...

Cap,
Every single piece of video footage covering the attack, with the exception of a turkish TV and an al-Jazeera excerpt, have been provided by and through the Israeli military censor. Those some Israeli IDF videos have been played over and over again on all the world's television networks. Effectively there is no other story of the attack on the flotilla except that provided by the Israeli state. (only today are some other eye-witness accounts beginning to come out). You cannot reasonably ask people to make up their minds on the basis of a monopoly.

The evidence provided by the Israelis looks pretty conclusive. The 'activists' were grabbing the Israeli soldiers as the repelled down from the chopper, flung them to the deck and started to beat them up with metal rods and sticks. The fact that the IDF did not react earlier is clear enough indication to me, that they had no intention of violence, as is usually the case in such situations. When the CO is shocked to see that the lives of his soldiers are now in danger, then the decision was made to use proportional force.

It is only natural that the "activists" will provide 'eye witness' accounts of 'Israeli aggression'.

This is what happened:
1) IDF board vessel in International Waters,
2) 'activists' attack IDF which is basically an invitation to the IDF to open fire, and
3) IDF open fire and kill 9 'activists'.

Very sad that 9 should die. And the biggest losers in this political point scoring debacle under the guise of 'humanitarian aid', are the Palestinians as per usual.

The activists actions were an invitation to open fire. They might as well have tattooed "PLEASE SHOOT ME" on their foreheads! And that is exactly what the IDF did!

Turkey should be ashamed of itself for this latest bloodbath!

Thank God I believe you have a sense of humour Paphitis.

Deniz, I am serious. This is my view on these events.

I am very sad about the tragic loss of life. And I will criticize Israeli aggression where applicable. I am not a supporter of Israeli policies and humanitarian crimes committed against the Palestinians.

But, we need to be very reasonable as to what actually happened aboard the Mavi Marmara. I am only interested in the facts and will post accordingly in such serious matters.

The Israelis have boarded vessels that have tried to violate the Gaza Strip embargo before, and no one was killed. This should've been the case here as well.

No. Paphitis; here you have jumped on the 'bash the Turks' bandwagon. Simple as that.

[YFred]

Here is the first video from the ship. People were shot at and killed before they lowered the soldiers to the boat. It is no wonder that the people attacked the soldiers.

[Paphitis]

Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers

Make up your own minds...

Cap,
Every single piece of video footage covering the attack, with the exception of a turkish TV and an al-Jazeera excerpt, have been provided by and through the Israeli military censor. Those some Israeli IDF videos have been played over and over again on all the world's television networks. Effectively there is no other story of the attack on the flotilla except that provided by the Israeli state. (only today are some other eye-witness accounts beginning to come out). You cannot reasonably ask people to make up their minds on the basis of a monopoly.

The evidence provided by the Israelis looks pretty conclusive. The 'activists' were grabbing the Israeli soldiers as the repelled down from the chopper, flung them to the deck and started to beat them up with metal rods and sticks. The fact that the IDF did not react earlier is clear enough indication to me, that they had no intention of violence, as is usually the case in such situations. When the CO is shocked to see that the lives of his soldiers are now in danger, then the decision was made to use proportional force.

It is only natural that the "activists" will provide 'eye witness' accounts of 'Israeli aggression'.

This is what happened:
1) IDF board vessel in International Waters,
2) 'activists' attack IDF which is basically an invitation to the IDF to open fire, and
3) IDF open fire and kill 9 'activists'.

Very sad that 9 should die. And the biggest losers in this political point scoring debacle under the guise of 'humanitarian aid', are the Palestinians as per usual.

The activists actions were an invitation to open fire. They might as well have tattooed "PLEASE SHOOT ME" on their foreheads! And that is exactly what the IDF did!

Turkey should be ashamed of itself for this latest bloodbath!

Thank God I believe you have a sense of humour Paphitis.

Deniz, I am serious. This is my view on these events.

I am very sad about the tragic loss of life. And I will criticize Israeli aggression where applicable. I am not a supporter of Israeli policies and humanitarian crimes committed against the Palestinians.

But, we need to be very reasonable as to what actually happened aboard the Mavi Marmara. I am only interested in the facts and will post accordingly in such serious matters.

The Israelis have boarded vessels that have tried to violate the Gaza Strip embargo before, and no one was killed. This should've been the case here as well.

No. Paphitis; here you have jumped on the 'bash the Turks' bandwagon. Simple as that.

Just face it Deniz. Turkey fucked up big time for turning what should be a noble cause into a political point scoring debacle costing the lives of 9 'activists'.

This was never about the Palestinians at all, because the aid could have been delivered with ease and without placing lives at risk.

The US is always interested in delivering aid to the Palestinians believe it or not. And they are in a position to pressure the Israelis.

Now Turkey is trying to take the moral high ground, when in actual fact, they were provoking and prodding the Israelis all along, and let's not mention the occupation of Cyprus. Such overwhelming hypocrisy.

Don't blame me when the Israeli's lash out. They will not tolerate any shit from Turkey, and there is very little NATO, the US or anyone else can do about that.

Send the TN and let's see what happens. More people will be killed no doubt, but this time it will be Turkish Sailors. Don't say you were not warned.

[denizaksulu]

Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers

Make up your own minds...

Cap,
Every single piece of video footage covering the attack, with the exception of a turkish TV and an al-Jazeera excerpt, have been provided by and through the Israeli military censor. Those some Israeli IDF videos have been played over and over again on all the world's television networks. Effectively there is no other story of the attack on the flotilla except that provided by the Israeli state. (only today are some other eye-witness accounts beginning to come out). You cannot reasonably ask people to make up their minds on the basis of a monopoly.

The evidence provided by the Israelis looks pretty conclusive. The 'activists' were grabbing the Israeli soldiers as the repelled down from the chopper, flung them to the deck and started to beat them up with metal rods and sticks. The fact that the IDF did not react earlier is clear enough indication to me, that they had no intention of violence, as is usually the case in such situations. When the CO is shocked to see that the lives of his soldiers are now in danger, then the decision was made to use proportional force.

It is only natural that the "activists" will provide 'eye witness' accounts of 'Israeli aggression'.

This is what happened:
1) IDF board vessel in International Waters,
2) 'activists' attack IDF which is basically an invitation to the IDF to open fire, and
3) IDF open fire and kill 9 'activists'.

Very sad that 9 should die. And the biggest losers in this political point scoring debacle under the guise of 'humanitarian aid', are the Palestinians as per usual.

The activists actions were an invitation to open fire. They might as well have tattooed "PLEASE SHOOT ME" on their foreheads! And that is exactly what the IDF did!

Turkey should be ashamed of itself for this latest bloodbath!

Thank God I believe you have a sense of humour Paphitis.

Deniz, I am serious. This is my view on these events.

I am very sad about the tragic loss of life. And I will criticize Israeli aggression where applicable. I am not a supporter of Israeli policies and humanitarian crimes committed against the Palestinians.

But, we need to be very reasonable as to what actually happened aboard the Mavi Marmara. I am only interested in the facts and will post accordingly in such serious matters.

The Israelis have boarded vessels that have tried to violate the Gaza Strip embargo before, and no one was killed. This should've been the case here as well.

No. Paphitis; here you have jumped on the 'bash the Turks' bandwagon. Simple as that.

Just face it Deniz. Turkey fucked up big time for turning what should be a noble cause into a political point scoring debacle costing the lives of 9 'activists'.

This was never about the Palestinians at all, because the aid could have been delivered with ease and without placing lives at risk.

The US is always interested in delivering aid to the Palestinians believe it or not. And they are in a position to pressure the Israelis.

Now Turkey is trying to take the moral high ground, when in actual fact, they were provoking and prodding the Israelis all along, and let's not mention the occupation of Cyprus. Such overwhelming hypocrisy.

Don't blame me when the Israeli's lash out. They will not tolerate any shit from Turkey, and there is very little NATO, the US or anyone else can do about that.

Send the TN and let's see what happens. More people will be killed no doubt, but this time it will be Turkish Sailors. Don't say you were not warned.

The Knesset already admitted that the IDF have fucked up already.

[CBBB]

Irrespective of underlying motives, the flotilla was attacked in international waters. Is this not piracy? Those on board are not allowed to defend themselves? How would you have all (and I mean ALL!) changed your posts if it had been Greek or Cypriot ships?

[Cap]

ISRAEL is a nation permanently under siege.

Without an unceasing struggle for self-preservation the Jewish state would be “wiped off the face of the earth”, to quote the blood-curdling words of Iran’s President Ahmadinejad.

In the last 70 years the Jewish people have already experienced one monstrous attempt to destroy their race. That is why they are now so determined to prevent further acts of anti-Semitic carnage in their homeland.

But that is not the way most of the world sees it. The Jewish state, founded on Western guilt over the Nazi holocaust, is widely regarded today as the worst oppressor in the Middle East. Israel’s iron-willed resistance against her enemies is constantly portrayed as nothing more than militaristic bullying.

The Palestinian people are held to be the innocent victims of Israel’s tyranny. In fashionable Left-wing circles throughout the Western world, Israel is a pariah state, the subject of international cultural and academic boycotts.

In its willingness to defend its interests the country is said to have gone far beyond the boundaries of international law and civilised behaviour. The invasion of Lebanon by the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) in 2006, which resulted in 1,400 deaths, is an alleged example of this brutality.

Even the British government, normally a close ally of Israel, reacted furiously earlier this year when forged British passports were used in an undercover operation in Dubai by Mossad, the Israeli secret service, to assassinate Mahmoud al-Madbouh, the military commander of the Palestinian Islamic organisation Hamas.

The furore over the Gaza ship killings perfectly fits this narrative of barbaric Israel. What could be more immoral than the use of IDF commandos to attack civilian ships bringing humanitarian aid to the starving people of the Gaza Strip, who have been kept virtual prisoners by Israel’s ruthless naval and air blockade around their border?

SEARCH COLUMNISTS for:



Due to Israel’s heavy-handedness, say critics, 19 innocent people have been killed and as many as 40 injured. One witness claimed the Mavi Marmara, the ship that the IDF targeted, was “drenched in blood” after the commando assault.

Yet as so often before in the Middle East this seems to be a one-sided picture that takes no account of the challenges Israel faces in dealing with terrorism. The fact is that the blockade of the Gaza Strip, which is a Palestinian self-governing territory, was imposed by Israel in 2006 not as a means of oppressing its inhabitants but as a measure of self-protection.

Like so many Islamist outfits, Hamas, the ruling party of Gaza, is bent on the destruction of Israel. Its leaders have refused to renounce violence or recognise the Jewish state. Ideological anti-Semitism is the party’s driving force. In that spirit Gaza was used as a base from which to mount a murderous war of attrition against Israel, mainly through rockets and suicide bombings.

That is why Israel had no alternative but to prevent the import of weaponry and ammunition by closing down the borders. But contrary to Islamist propaganda Israel still allows humanitarian and commercial goods into Gaza. Ever since the imposition of the blockade anti-Israeli forces have been trying to smash it.

Support for the terrorists of Hamas has been presented as “peace activism”. Convoys have masqueraded as “humanitarian” initiatives. This latest flotilla from Turkey was entirely in keeping with this spirit. One of the organisations behind the effort is the IHH, a hardline Islamist group which has links to Hamas.

There is a sense that many on board the Mavi Marmara were spoiling for a confrontation. The Israelis were actually willing to let the ship dock at Ashdod but its commanders refused. When the first commandos went on board they were hit with metal bars and stabbed with knives. The IDF also claims to have found a large cache of weapons, thereby undermining the credentials of the “peace activists”.

Nevertheless the incident has been a public relations disaster for Israel. As thousands of demonstrators protest in London the United Nations has ordered an inquiry. Yet one of the strongest characteristics of Israel is her complete indifference to international public opinion.

The founders of the state learnt the lesson from the Thirties that Western nations would not fight to defend Jewish people from ever-more oppression. Self-defence for those peoples must be in their own hands. That explains why the Israeli military is among the most formidable in the world.

That toughness has been reinforced by the premiership of Benjamin Netanyahu, leader of the Likud party. A massively experienced politician he is completely uncompromising in the face of the terrorist threat, not least because he himself served as a heroic commando in the IDF during the Sixties and Seventies. He also lost his elder brother, another military commander, to terrorist action in 1976, reinforcing his contempt for Israel’s enemies.

Israel would like to live in peace with a prosperous, democratic Palestine as its neighbour. But it cannot do so while the Islamists remain obsessed with blood-soaked destruction of the Jewish state and the West continues to swallow anti-Israeli propaganda.

What is certain is that Israel will continue to fight for her survival no matter what the cost.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/178 ... guard-slip

[Paphitis]

Here is the first video from the ship. People were shot at and killed before they lowered the soldiers to the boat. It is no wonder that the people attacked the soldiers.

Didn't see anyone get shot dipstick.

I saw the IDF repel on board and then attacked!

[RichardB]

Irrespective of underlying motives, the flotilla was attacked in international waters. Is this not piracy? Those on board are not allowed to defend themselves? How would you have all (and I mean ALL!) changed your posts if it had been Greek or Cypriot ships?

I must agree with this.

I think the fact that this was done in International Waters irrespective of any pre emption of what may or may not have been on board the vessel nullifies any justification for this attack. (As well as being against international law).

Now I'm probably going to be shot down here but did not the Turks give the excuse that their invasion was if you like justified by their being pre emptive of what would have happened to TCs during and in the aftermath of the coup d'etat in 1974.