Cyprus-Forum.com

[X-ite]

Unfortunately, you rejected the solution which would make Turkey withdraw her troops from Cyprus and keep it in the number of 650 number which is allowed in Treaty of Guarantee

We want all the troops withdrawn and the Treaty of Guarantee to be abolished. We want both Greece and Turkey to lose their rights over Cyprus. We want an independent country.

While we were reluctant to some of provisions, We accepted everything in the plan

You were relactant to some provisions? Were to reluctant to the fact that you would be compensated to reinstate some of the properties which you stole while we were never compensated? Where you reluctant to the fact that only 650 Turkish remained stationed in Cyprus while Turkey keeps her rights of intervention and she can send thousands of troops here in a matter of minutes? Is there anything in the plan that didn't satisfy Turkish demands?

Yes, it was not an UN resolution but it was accepted by the International Community. Is this not enough?

They never wanted to oppose Turkey, for the reasons we all know. The Annan plan wouldn't have solved the Cyprus problem, it would have made it worse. And what can I say about foreign opinion abroad, they have lied to them, most of the media are not unbiased, they look at things according to their country's interests. The only unbiased newspapaper article which I read was Swiss. They might have cared once but they think we should accept it now.

[X-ite]

An interesting article:

The Guardian

"They invaded in two separate waves. They camped along the Attila Line, holding 36 per cent of Cyprus. They have not budged since. Worse, they have relentlessly filled northern Cyprus with mainland immigrants, squeezing all but a handfull of Greeks from their territory.
...Who can woder...that the Greeks fear not merely permanent division along the Attila Line but, at some suitable future moment with some suitable future excuse, a further Turkish push to swallow all of Cyprus? Will world opinion be any more help then that it is now?..." 'Words won't shift Turkey' in "The Guardian", 8.30.1979

[MicAtCyp]

Turker said "... Yes, it was not an UN resolution but it was accepted by the International Community. Is this not enough?...."

The International Community (do you include Zimbabue, Philippines,and Brazil in your generalisation?) did not say they accepted it to be applied upon them. They accepted it to be applied upon us i.e "who cares if you get burned". Some EU bureauctrats said if you accept it then it’s fine with us**.Well we did NOT accept it and beleive me its EQUALLY fine with them also.Besides who would suffer the consequenses if that Plan was accepted? Them or us?

".......While we were reluctant to some of provisions, We accepted everything in the plan with a Huge YES vote both from TRNC community (including the settlers) and Government of Turkey, even from the army! "

Of course!!! You were reluctant because it was giving you 99% of what you wanted.But what a braveness... you then wiped off your tears for that 1% and you said YES.
Hey bravo bre Turker, tell us more.
And more jokes ..... like even "the Army".
Ha ha ha ha. Did your Generals sign the Anan Plan??? As far as I know they would think about it in case both sides said yes.....

PS.** What some bureaucrats in Europe said was not even a written guarantee. Do you know that according to the Anan Plan the 2 Co-Presidents should have to address a letter to the Council of Europe DEMANDING that the Anan Plan would become THE PRIMARY LAW of Europe?(That was the demand of your Turkish Generals which the SO NEUTRAL Mr Anan just put in his plan the last minute). Do you know that the Council of Europe has no authority to decide upon such a matter and that it had to refer it through all the parliaments of all 24 members states of Europe for approval? Do you know that it had ZERO chances to pass? Do you know what would happen to Cyprus’ accession in the EU and to Cyprus as a Country after that? Do you know that without that passing your Generals would say "agreement yoktur"?

[Turker]

Of course!!! You were reluctant because it was giving you 99% of what you wanted.But what a braveness... you then wiped off your tears for that 1% and you said YES.
Hey bravo bre Turker, tell us more.

No MicAtCyp, it didn't give what we want. Federal Gov. consisting of Greek-Majoity would dominate seas of whole Cyprus, we didn't want that. Turkey wanted more Turkish troops to be deployed than 650. And also there wouldn't be sovereignty of TCs to a self-determination (I don't support self-determination but some of our politicians often mentioned about that)

And more jokes ..... like even "the Army".
Ha ha ha ha. Did your Generals sign the Anan Plan??? As far as I know they would think about it in case both sides said yes.....

PS.** What some bureaucrats in Europe said was not even a written guarantee. Do you know that according to the Anan Plan the 2 Co-Presidents should have to address a letter to the Council of Europe DEMANDING that the Anan Plan would become THE PRIMARY LAW of Europe?(That was the demand of your Turkish Generals which the SO NEUTRAL Mr Anan just put in his plan the last minute). Do you know that the Council of Europe has no authority to decide upon such a matter and that it had to refer it through all the parliaments of all 24 members states of Europe for approval? Do you know that it had ZERO chances to pass? Do you know what would happen to Cyprus’ accession in the EU and to Cyprus as a Country after that? Do you know that without that passing your Generals would say "agreement yoktur"?

Turkey insisted on "that pass" because of derogations. Even if it hadn't passed from the parliaments, it would still be a valid agreement. And no one in Turkey would have had a right to say "Agreement yoktur" on the contrary "Agreement vardir, ve uygulayacagiz" they would have to implement that.

One of our most controversial objection to the plan was that. May be the primary objection.

But Turkish state said yes!

[Turker]

They invaded in two separate waves. They camped along the Attila Line, holding 36 per cent of Cyprus.

Yes Troops should go outta Cyprus yet you should bear in mind that it is impossible as long as you don't want an agreement to an internationally-accepted plan in Cyprus as you do now.

[X-ite]

Yes Troops should go outta Cyprus yet you should bear in mind that it is impossible as long as you don't want an agreement to an internationally-accepted plan in Cyprus as you do now.

Read my previous post. I insist on it.

[MicAtCyp]

Turker if we are going to make an analysis of what the Turkish demands were and how close the latest version of Anan Plan was to satisfying those demands we will have to write a whole book in here.Instead you can refer to previous discussions to get an insight. You said the central state would be dominated by the GCs.Well if the GCs who are 82% of the population would hold 66% of the Government jobs at the Central State and the TCs who are 18% the 33% that for you is a dominance, then why are we discussing about re-unification? If you consider this a dominance this proves that what would really satisfy you is your own completely separate state.You already had one for 30 years now, have it for another 30.

Like I explained many times in this forum the Anan Plan was actually for 3 completely separate states WITH NO AUTHORITY of any one of the 3 upon the rest-not even the Centreal state.Each state would simply mind its own bussiness.That was very close to partition wasn’t it? With all respect but you would be stupid not to accept it!

We said many times what the GCs wanted. What did we get other than less than 50% of the 50% of the 50% of the 50% of the 50%............ because we were the only ones who were always giving during the hundreds of negotitations carried out all these years.That was the tactic of Dektash.Setting up schizophrenic demands, and when the stupid GCs would say OK lets accept them to have a solution, he was setting new ones...He admitted that to Mehmet Ali Birant.

Well all this IS OVER including the Anan Plan.We start afresh.We want what is right and what is lawful.Nothing more nothing less.Zero compromises from the right and the lawful. Anyone who wants to question them let him go to International or EU courts.Let Denktash or any new Denktash set schizophrenic demands and let HIM go to courts to prove them right. WE ARE NO LONGER IN A HURRY!! 30 years of our lives are gone wasted.The ones older than us already died as refugees.We do not expect any gain or joy from a solution anymore.So if a solution will ever come when we will be walking with sticks then it has to be right. Because it will not be for us.It will be for our children....

You said..." Turkey insisted on "that pass" because of derogations. Even if it hadn't passed from the parliaments, it would still be a valid agreement. And no one in Turkey would have had a right to say "Agreement yoktur" on the contrary "Agreement vardir, ve uygulayacagiz" they would have to implement that. ..."

Whether the agreement would be valid or not and whether your Generals would accept it and start withdrawing their troops nobody will ever know. Was there any written guarantee? One can only guess. I can, can you too?
And you really missed my point. The so called "United Cyprus of Anan Plan" would NOT be finally accepted to be a member of the EU because that would be a different legal system than the Cyprus Republic and furthermore it would require the democratic Aquis formed in Europe after hundreds of years of srtuggles, drop down to primitive level.

So in the end we would be left with No Republic, No State, No EU, and an agreement giving us peanuts that olny God could tell if it would ever EVER be put in practice.

Iyi geceler.

PS.Nerelisin?

[Turker]

Like I explained many times in this forum the Anan Plan was actually for 3 completely separate states WITH NO AUTHORITY of any one of the 3 upon the rest-not even the Centreal state.Each state would simply mind its own bussiness.That was very close to partition wasn’t it?

Yes, I think you are right, but as you know, otherwise no one in Turkey would accept a solution, because it is emplanted to every Turk living in Turkey that :

"Cyprus is our second little land, it's our island taken with blood and can't be given without blood"

I'm against all those views. But most of Turks think like that. AKP (party of the current government) was the only one accepting the Annan Plan. Can you believe that? The most protecting plan and almost a partition was rejected by all the other parties. There were meetings, protests against the government and the plan.

In the current situation, no government in Turkey would hesitate to accept a plan that is less protecting than this Plan unless there were pressures from EU, yet it would be still difficult as it would be unpalatable to a great majority of Turks in Turkey. This is unfortunately a fact.

That was the tactic of Dektash.Setting up schizophrenic demands, and when the stupid GCs would say OK lets accept them to have a solution, he was setting new ones...He admitted that to Mehmet Ali Birant.

Yes we all know that. Thus he was protested by people knowing the issue well. I'm against him and we accuse him to be a guard of Statu-quo and he doesn't reject our claim. He is known to want Taksim, nothing less. Suprisingly enough almost %60 - 70 of Turks of Turkey support him.

So if a solution will ever come when we will be walking with sticks then it has to be right. Because it will not be for us.It will be for our children....

I hope a solution that both sides will accept to be agreed soon. I really want you all to be happy living in your small peaceful island without there being any refugees. I hope that you will see it while being able to run, not walking with sticks. And hopefully, there will be no intervention of troops or mainlands in the solution.

Whether the agreement would be valid or not and whether your Generals would accept it and start withdrawing their troops nobody will ever know. Was there any written guarantee? One can only guess. I can, can you too?

I'm sure they would have. If they hadn't, this would have undermined the EU process. But if EU process were fallen through I wouldn't be so sure. Maybe I'd certainly agree with you.

And you really missed my point. The so called "United Cyprus of Anan Plan" would NOT be finally accepted to be a member of the EU because that would be a different legal system than the Cyprus Republic and furthermore it would require the democratic Aquis formed in Europe after hundreds of years of srtuggles, drop down to primitive level.

You are right but, as far as I know the derogations in the last plan were interim. But they were not in the previous versions. So you would enjoy with all facilities EU at last.

So in the end we would be left with No Republic, No State, No EU, and an agreement giving us peanuts that olny God could tell if it would ever EVER be put in practice.

You may be right about that it would be put in practice, if you mention about functioning of the federal state. I have some concerns about that. But it's not certain anyway.

I understand all of your concerns. If I were you I'd reject the plan. Maybe Super States (USA) want the continuation of Status-quo, and maybe thereby prepared the plan to be rejected by Greeks.

I want to ask you a question MicAtCyp, please answer.

Would you accept any previous versions of Annan Plan?

Iyi geceler.

PS.Nerelisin?

Tesekkurler, sana da Iyi geceler.

Istanbul luyum (If you asked that question to me, as i don't know What does P.S mean) and you?

[Piratis]

I understand all of your concerns. If I were you I'd reject the plan. Maybe Super States (USA) want the continuation of Status-quo, and maybe thereby prepared the plan to be rejected by Greeks.

I believe that anybody that wants to think in an objective way would come to the above conclusion. I already said many times, that if I was a Turkish Cypriot I would definitely vote "yes".
It really puzzled me when Turkish Cypriots could not see that we were justified to vote "no", and that if they were in our place most of them would have done the same too.

[michalis5354]

The Turkishcypriot opinion is not that important in Turkey? How important is it? Because at the end of the day the final decisions are taken from Turkey which is not right!

as it would be unpalatable to a great majority of Turks in Turkey. This is unfortunately a fact.